Cletrac Tractor Discussion => Military Cletracs => Topic started by: Jim Baker on June 06, 2010, 03:38:56 PM

Title: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on June 06, 2010, 03:38:56 PM
Back in Jan. of 09 there were some posts regarding drawings of a M2, or M1, the same, I suspect.  I, too, am a modeler, and would like to find some dimentions in order to build a model.

If the poster was able to get some drawings/dimensions, etc., and would be willing to share them, or the source, I would be ever so grateful.

I build paper models of airplanes, vehicles, etc., and would be happy to post a photo of the model Cletrac, if and when I am able to get it built...depending upon finding a starting point!  Even the width of a tread, or the diameter of the driving or idler wheel would be a good start.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: waayfast on June 08, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Here is a few:(inches) wheel                                             :24
Dia front idler                                               :24
Track pads                                                   :13 1/2 x 4
length(leading edge of
track to trailing edge
of track)                                                      :135
bottom of track(on ground)to top of track      :38 1/2
width to outside of tracks                             :65 1/2
length from leading edge of front road wheel
to trailing edge of rear road wheel                :76 1/2
dia. return wheel                                         :8
center to center return wheels                      :30
front of drive wheel to center of rear return  :23
Length of guide bar(horizontal frame rail
above the bogies)                                        :84 1/2
Width to outside of fenders                          :67 1/2
width of seat                                               :63 1/2
depth of seat (front to back)                         :20
height of seat(18 for seat,add 3 for mount
between seat and fender)                             :21
height of seat sides(from bottom of seat)     :10
width of cowl/radiator                                  :33
height top of fenders to top of cowl               :21 1/2
front of seat bottom to rear of fuel tank        :13 1/2
ground to top of seat back (approx.)             :62
total length of fenders                                  :139
length of fender (top surface)                       :126 1/2
width of fender                                            :15 3/4
battery tray base on right fender                   :11x23 1/2
 front of radiator to back of fuel tank            :73 1/2
 front of bumper to front of radiator
guard                                                           :22 1/2
front of bumper to front of radiator               :33
front of bumper to front of very leading edge
of fender                                                      :7
bumper                                                         :68w X 6h X 4 1/2 deep

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: waayfast on June 08, 2010, 10:54:33 AM
Here is a few more:  (inches)
inside edge of fender to inside edge of fender:36 3/4
width of drive/idler wheels                            :9 1/2
outside to outside of a pair of road wheels
(one set bogies)   O__O O__O                       :34 1/2
Opening front of radiator                              :27 1/2w X 23 1/4h
 Total height radiator                                    :31
radiator guard                                               28 1/2h X 35w

   Hope these help!! I am building a plastic model of an MG-1.It came in a 1/48 scale model of a B-24 bomber.(Revell kit 5625).The cletrac is just an add-on to the Bomber--not very much detail- but it is the only model of the MG-1 I have found.If and when I get it done and figure out how to post pics here I'll post it.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on June 08, 2010, 10:48:15 PM
Thanks waayfast, for all that information.  If I can't get something started from that, I may as well hang  up my drawing board!  I will keep you up to date on the progress.   Jim

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on June 16, 2010, 10:16:28 PM
Hello Waayfast (and others),

I've put together a few lines toward a working plan for a MG1 model, thanks to Waayfast's kind provision of a whole bunch of dimensions.  So, here is a beginning.  Think this will work?  I'll keep you posted, but it will be a pretty slo go for a time.  Be patient.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on June 17, 2010, 05:53:07 PM
That's looking really good, so far.  Are you going to model it in 3D CAD, or 2D, only?  I was going to link some dimensions, but waayfast came up with a much more comprehensive list!


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on June 18, 2010, 06:58:18 PM
Thank you,  Ol Paint.  And I've gotten this far thanks to waafast.  By the way, can either of  you give me a measurement from the ground to the top of the fender....I am guessing at that, judging from photos.

I'm doing this with a 2D program, Ashlar Vellum Drawing Board.  I hope to get some skills together enough to do a 3D in Rhino, but that is a big order.  The 2D will do enough for what I want, and that is to build a model, from paper, to go with my paper airplanes.  

I have mined enough photos from the internet to have a pretty good idea of what most of the CLetrac looks like, and the measurements make it possible to draw something up.  I am still missing some info on the underbelly of the machine, such as what holds the track "beams", for lack of a better term, to the main frame.  I talked to Mr. Zimmerman today, and he may have something helpful.  Will work on that. I don't need a whole manual, for which would cost about $45!  

Will post as I go.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on June 18, 2010, 07:57:58 PM
Sure, I'll try to get that dimension for you over the weekend.  

There are two longitudinal rails that run from the transmission housing forward past the engine to the front bumper supports.  This has a cross-member under the front of the engine, tying the subframe together.  The skidplates also serve double duty to hold the subframe rails together.  The track units are bolted to the subframe via heavy brackets from their crossmembers tying the two individual track units together.

Here's a picture. (http://  Another picture from further back (http://  And with the engine removed (http://

Rhino is pretty simple to use, but the bigger problem is managing the parts count & layers to make it easier to work.


[Edited for missing details and poorly-worded sentences.]

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on June 18, 2010, 08:08:07 PM
Oh, and here's a scan from the maintenance manual (http://'s%20Equipment/Technical%20Documents/Cletrac%20Manual%20Page-001.jpg) of an underside view (aft looking forward).  As is to be expected, most of the underside is plated over with some heavy duty skidplates.  The two track frames are held together by cross-members that are, in turn, clamped to the subframe.  The skidplate is actually split into two parts, with the back half ending at the rear tubular crossmember, just above the drawbar anchor bar.

[Edit to add:  FYI, the cylinder you see on the right side of the picture is the muffler.]


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: waayfast on June 18, 2010, 11:45:05 PM
Wow, very nice so far!Looking at the drawing I already see several measurements I "missed".I will try to get more tomorrow and some pics of an "open" machine for you also.I am using David Doyle's book "High Speed Tractor",A visual history of the Army's tracked  artillery Prime Movers, for info for building my models both 1/48 in plastic and 1/1 in iron  ;D. The Cletrac was the smallest of the HST's.The book has a large number of very good pics of the machines.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on June 19, 2010, 07:40:55 PM
Keep in mind that my machine is missing the engine block and everything above the fenders (hood, firewall, fuel tank, radiator, air tank, generator, etc.) as well as the winch and front bumper.  Basically just the chassis and rear end.  With that said, from the ground to the fender at the front roadwheel is 44-1/2" and the same dimension at the center of the rear roadwheel is 42-5/8 inches.  Fully outfitted, it might sit a little lower in the front--but then the springs probably sag over time, too.  Most pictures seem to show a little nose-high attitude.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on June 20, 2010, 11:50:12 AM
Ol Paint and Waafast, I must say you guys are certainly knowledgeable, and sure willing to help a newcomer to this forum!  

The photos and scan of the Manual are great helps, as well as the ground/fender measurements.  I have noticed the nose high attitude in photos.  I kinda of like that…makes it look like it’s ready to tackle something.

Douglas, your photos remind me of earlier days when I had some antique firetrucks.  A friend had one that was mostly rust, at least it seemed to me.  He said it “just needs a little wax”.  Another friend suggested that if I wanted one, I should get it already in good shape.  That is what I did, and while my friend was rebuilding (waxing) his, I was playing with mine.  In the end, however, his made mine look like a well-used car!  So, good luck with the restoration, and I bet it is all worth it one of these days.

Jim,  there is a site that sells old plastic kits, and the B-24 with a “ground tractor” is listed at $155!  And there is one on Ebay right now that is around $26 plus $10 shipping.  So your model is pretty valuable!

Thanks again for your help, and I’ll keep reporting progress… (when) it happens.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on June 20, 2010, 12:52:46 PM
I got a chuckle out of the "wax" bit--and I agree completely.  It's a lot easier to start with a running machine.  Not only are you dealing with a known quantity (what works, what doesn't), but it's also pretty evident that you've got all the fiddly bits that aren't obvious when trying to make a runner out of a deadlined hedgerow reject.  I like to joke that my hobby is buying rust and cleaning it with money.  On the other hand, while it may cost a lot more in the end, it's easier to nickel and dime your way along than it is to lay out the big chunk of cash to start with, financially speaking.

I'd love to restore mine to the condition 3J1Bill's machine is in, but I'm just trying to get it to running condition at the moment.  Typical for me, I'm doing things backwards in that I bought the machine before I have a place to work on it.  I also didn't have much in the way of tools when I got started, so I'm buying that stuff as I go along, too.  I'm currently renting space about five miles away to store the tractor & do the heavy teardown & using my apartment's 1-car garage to do the light work.  I've decided that the full restoration is going to have to wait until I have a place where the workshop and living quarters are co-located--there's simply too much travel involved right now, not to mention other intrusions.

I like doing the mechanical work, but I admit I'd much rather be driving it through the woods and only wrenching for maintenance!  

If you're interested, I'm keeping a restoration log with a few photos here (http://  If you note the dates & the time I've spent so far, I'm not the most active restorer you'll meet...  Some of the other teardown photos may be of use to you.


[Edited for mis-spelling.]

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on August 12, 2010, 08:17:30 PM
It has been awhile since I started on working up a model of the Cletrac M1(2), but slowly but surely making progress.  Here is a copy of my drive wheel drawing (in bitmap form, not the vector it is drawn in).  And I'm making up a part from this, which I'll post a little later...assuming I can make it.  Talk about a lot of fiddlie parts!  And don't forget, the wheel is only 1" in dia. at 1/24th.  Thanks for the help getting this far.  I will be asking for more soon.   Jim

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on August 13, 2010, 08:45:28 PM
Very nice.  You'll probably have yours built before I do mine...  ;)


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on August 30, 2010, 09:28:21 PM
Well, I've decided that I can make a paper model of a MG-1 at 1/24 th scale.  But it will take alot of time, and a lot more drawing.  I am thinking I should order up a manual to help figure out the details.  And call on Oil Paint and Waafast again for more information.  However, for now, I have a couple of models under construction that I want to finish up for the Paper Modelers Convention in DC in Oct.  So, I am putting the Cletrac aside until then.  Not quiting by any means....I'm pretty fired up to make this.  Here are a couple of photos of the Drive Wheel at 1/24th....1" in dia.!

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: hotratz on August 31, 2010, 11:29:57 AM
That is phenomenal. What is the process after doing the drawings to produce those pieces?

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on August 31, 2010, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: "hotratz"
That is phenomenal. What is the process after doing the drawings to product those pieces?

Here is the simple explaniatin.  I print the parts on heavy paper, cut them out, and glue them together.  

What is not so simple is the time and patience it takes to get it all together correctly!  The spokes are a double thickness of paper (this is made of cardstock, about .03 thick). Then after everything is cut out, I put the inner wheel and part (for lack of a better word) where the spokes attach into a jig I made to help line everything up. I put the inner rim into the jig and proceed to glue the 20 spokes I've cut out (with an x-acto knife) to the inner and outer pieces with white glue. When that is dry, I glue on the outer rim, then Imake the other side.  The sprocket wheel is 4 thickness of paper, cut out and sandwiched between the two wheel halves.  Then the shaft end was cut out of about 5 thicknesses of paper.  And there you have it.  The rest of the model will be built the same way, using cut and assembly methods.  Most will be to scale (as I can determine), although some of the hidden parts will be glossed over.  As with most models, some things are not exactly as the original, but a representation as best as possible.

Thank you for your appreciation!

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: hotratz on September 01, 2010, 08:28:24 AM
Un-believable! ::)  That seems to be more work than restoring an actual MG-1. How many hours do you anticipate this project taking? Or maybe a better question would be "how many hours do you have in just that one part"?

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on September 01, 2010, 10:33:42 PM
Quote from: "hotratz"
Un-believable! :shock: That seems to be more work than restoring an actual MG-1. How many hours do you anticipate this project taking? Or maybe a better question would be "how many hours do you have in just that one part"?

I would say it took me about two-three hours to cut out the parts and assemble the wheel. But it took another, probably three, hours to figure out and make the jig to put them together.  The real time consumer was doing the drawings for the parts.....many refinements along the way, redrawing parts so I could make them (!) etc.  That was eight, ten hours at least.  But I won't have to do that again for the drive wheel, and the jig is made, so the next one should be a little over two hours.

But, from the posts I have seen, I will have this finished loooong before the restorations are done.  But I would be willing to trade mine for one of the real ones - even-steven, maybe?  Doubt it!

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: G-Pete on September 17, 2010, 11:42:17 AM
I'm in the same boat as you, no drawings or 3-views to find. My scale is a little larger - the model what I like to pull with (radio controlled) is a P-38M Night Fighter. This is 1:5.4 scale - close to 10ft wing span.
I like to build the MG-1 in metal for that aircraft. You have a good start on the drawings. I will post here my progress on my drawings here.

Right now I use a 1:6 scale M5 Stuart recon version - this tank ok but just ok. ( here is a little clip
and yes the model flies, the airplane not the tank <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /> ( P-38M fly by

Thank you

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on September 17, 2010, 07:02:10 PM
Nice looking P-38.  The use of the light tank to pull it is pretty cool, but you're right, a M2 model would be much nicer.  :P  It would be neat to convert the 2D drawings into a 3D & get a rapid-prototyping outfit to gin up some static models--stereolithograpy, 3D prints, etc.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: G-Pete on September 20, 2010, 08:17:46 AM
Thank you

The P-38 weighs 53 pounds, I modified the motors and speed controllers. It pulls that model effortless.

Anyhow my drawing program put many different file formats out - one of them is a .dfx. I can create 2 and 3D files, as I mentioned before I will post here the progress on that project. It will just take some time. Here in the shop I have plenty heavy machinery and a plasma table, this makes it possible to build that Cletrac out of metal. Target weight is 50lbs

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on September 22, 2010, 11:11:57 PM
G-Pete and Ol Paint, the drawing program I am using is "Drawingboard" by Ashlar.  It is pretty old, but I really like using it.  It does export to a .dfx file, but something is amiss about it, because I cannot open the exported file in Rhino.  I opened it in Winpro, vectorized it (although it was already a vectorized file), and then I could open it, but that is about all.  I am a klutz with Rhino.  Someday I may learn to use it...if I live to be 100.  For my purpose, the 2D files are all I need to build a model.  But getting all the drawings made is a real time consumer....especially since I am working from photos, and dimensions from Waafast and Ol Paint.  I hope to get to the Air Force Museum next month with ruler and camera, and get some more facts to work with.

It would be really cool to get some rapid prototype model made, but I don't know how you could swing that.  Pretty cost intesnsive stuff there!  In my working days I was a structural package designer and salesman, and my major customers were in the auto business.  I got to see a lot of that kind of thing at their places, and attended the SAE shows in Detroit where there are always several companys demonstrating rapid prototyping machines.  Boggles the mind!  I do hope, if I ever get enought together to make a Cletrac paper model kit, to have the parts cut out by some laser cutting outfit.  That is available on paper models from europe now.  Sure saves a lot of X-acto blades and frustration!  I will be glad to share some drawings - when I get them made - to either of you to see what you can do with them.
G-Pete, that is a fine P-38.  A Cletrac to pull it around would be perfect!  You are talking about a pretty big model.  But that would be a real attention grabber.

It is interesting how much we all have in common with these "things" such as rust, Cletracs, RC models, other models, and things like the Oshkosh air show, etc.  I've done RC - have a RC 1/4 scale Varga Kachina (about half built now) from self drawn plans - have been to Oshkosh about 10 times, had old trucks, worked in highway construction where I got a chance to play with bulldozers, drove a 20 ton Euclid for a summer (ah, youth),etc.  My firetruck buddy once said "its a sickness, you know!" It is reassuring to know that I'm not the only one!


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on January 01, 2011, 02:27:42 PM
Well, I have not given  up on my Cletrac Model!  Slow, but making progress.  Thanks to Ol Paint and Waafast, I have been able to get quite a bit done on the drawings.  But I've pretty well used up the dimensions, and gleaned all I can from the dozens of photos from the web.  Now I need to know the width of the main frame, how the side rails are attached to the frame, what the inside of a bogie wheel looks like, and what a bogie arm looks like....for starters!  I probably won't be able to duplicate all the little points, but would like to stay true to the prototype whenever I can.  If I can, I will post a photo of my progress so far.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on January 15, 2011, 11:46:04 PM
I haven't worked on mine since before Christmas.  The track assemblies bolt to what's termed by the manual as the "support bracket and tube assembly"--one located inboard approximately in line with each bogie cluster.  If you've looked at the picture of my '42 with the engine removed, you can see the forward tube through the exhaust cutout hole on the left hand side of the picture (  As far as the attachment of the tube assemblies to the transmission housing, I'll see what I can do about getting better pictures if someone else doesn't beat me to it.  It may be a couple of weeks, though.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: GMendes on February 08, 2011, 04:11:48 PM

I arrived her while searching for information regarding the M2 Cletrac, thinking of detailing a 1/48 Monogarm model that come with their 1/48 B-24 kit. For what I see, it would need great work to achieve a accurate representation.

An accurate drawing would be fantastic! So I will follow your work and wait for your model anxiously! So, the great work beng done by Jim Baker seems to open the door to the building of a accurate model! Many thanks for sharing!

I had tought in a papermodel also, based on the monogram model, with some details taken from photos, but I  give up of fidelity due to the complex and fidly parts of the real thing and the some dimensional errors of the Monogram kit.

By the way, if doing a papermodel, 1/33 scale is common with the aircraft papermodels from Europe, so, if a commercial model is in perspective it would have great appeal. 1/25 is the scale used by many editors to AFV papermodels. However, the use of digital, scaleable files, permitt the design in any scale. If possible, the model could have some print indications, to some common papermodel scales, like 1/33, 1/25, 1/60, but I think that this would depend on the complexity of the model. I use Autocad, so I usually draw in 1:1 scale, and I can plot/print to the desired scale as needed, or scale the entire drawing/work to any scale.

One thing that I find great difficulty was finding some photos/specifications of the Hercules engine and the fit on the cletrac MG-1, also the engine cover. Maybe someone here have a few photos of this?

Best cumpliments,


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on February 09, 2011, 05:55:12 PM
I am pretty much at a stand still on my drawings right now because I have run out of photos and dimensions for the "innards".  There are a lot of photos on the internet, but most all of the outside.  And, thanks to Ol Paint and Waafast who have some photos of more hidden parts, as well as a bunch of dimensions, I am where I am now.  I have ordered a parts manual for the MG1/MG2, and hope I can get moving again on the drawings.

I decided to make this in 1/24 th for two I have a couple of WWII models that were in 1/33 (Spitfire and a Mustang) , but I enlarged to 1/24th.  Easier to build, and add detail.  These are paper models, by the way.  Secondly, I don't think my fingers could put 40 spokes on a drive wheel in 1/33!  Even in 1/24th, the wheel is only 1" diameter! 

I will share the drawings in some format, probably some vector format, but it may be awhile!  Stay tuned!


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: GMendes on February 26, 2012, 07:03:17 PM

How is your MG1 Cletrac drawings project going?

Best cumpliments,


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on March 02, 2012, 09:24:37 PM
Well, this project has taken a big hit.... By December of last year I had almost all of the drawings done up to the transmission case and small parts such as levers and motor details.  Then, as I was working on the drawings, the power went off.  For 30 seconds.  It was back on before I had a chance to pull the plug on the computer, and a surge fryed the motherboard.  It appeared that all the data on the hard drive was intact.  And it was....all except the last half of last year's Drawingboard drawings.  Why only them, I have yet to determine.  I keep thinking they should be there somewhere, but although I have discussed it with several guru's, no luck.  Talk about closing the door after the horse is gone - I bought a back up hard drive along with the new motherboard.

So, until I work up the energy to restart this project (I will, sooner or later), it will be a while before I can report progress or fruits of the effort in a model.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on May 13, 2013, 09:13:23 AM
Just an update to let interested parties know that this project is still alive, and making some progress.  I have redrawn everything that was lost in the computer crash, plus some new drawings, thanks to some new info from Doug.  A lot of detail remains to be collected and added.  It is really difficult to tell accurately how parts fit together from photographs - mostly by trial and error...many far.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: hotratz on May 14, 2013, 08:14:06 AM
Thanks for the update. Am anxious to see progress pics when you get to that point.

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Ol Paint on December 06, 2014, 11:23:19 AM
I see eBay user 3wieds is offering a resin model kit of the M2 HST for $139.99.  Looks pretty detailed.
( (Resized).jpg)
( (Resized).jpg)
( (Resized).jpg)


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on December 06, 2014, 02:01:08 PM
Wow nice! Someone did some research.


Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on November 22, 2015, 05:17:37 PM
Pretty good model, although maybe a little off in detail.  It is molded resin, I believe.

I am still fiddling with some dimensions, and details, although I am getting close to putting it all together.  Unlike the molded parts that have many pieces combined into one, mine is being built from paper (cardstock, matt board,etc) and from many many pieces.  I'm not sure if I can post pictures these days, but when the time comes, I'll be sure to "show off" several year's work!  Might even make a kit available.  Jim

Title: Re: Military Cletrac
Post by: Jim Baker on November 04, 2016, 06:43:48 PM
Making progress!  Here is a photo from the recent Paper Modeler's Convention in D.C.  For the record, this is 1/16 scale, all scratch built from scratch drawings.  But, I've had a lot of help along the way, from forum members, and Landis Zimmerman.  My thanks to them.

See if this link works:

Scroll down to Don Boose's post, image 11A and B