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News: 10/5/12 - All new members are REQUIRED to fill out the signature section of your profile. Otherwise, you may be deleted from the forum. This is to help me determine if you are a member or if you are a spammer. Thank you.

9/22/12 - I ask that you please add a signature line to your profiles on the Cletrac Forum to help me to determine who is spam and who is not. You don't need to drop everything and do this immediately, but please do it when you get a minute and you are visiting the forum. Just go to http://cletrac.org/forum2010/index.php?action=profile and put something in the signature area. If you no longer want to be a member on the Cletrac Forum, please remove your membership.

8/10/11 - Added a new board: Trucking and Hauling

5/30/11 - Just added several new pictures to the Photo Gallery, including several Alfta Track OC-4 working in snow logging, several from the Chicago Road Show, and some from a logging show (not all Oliver/Cletrac). All these pictures are from around 1963 and were scanned from old slides given to me by my late friend John W. Davis. Go to the Photo Gallery and click on "NEW" to see these pictures. Quality is marginal, but I think you will enjoy them.

2/13/11 - Just added a new board "New members introduce yourselves here".

Folks, I just added a new photo gallery where you can upload your own pictures with descriptions, etc. Right now this is in the beta testing stage to see how it works out. Give it a try, but please keep a backup copy of your pictures just in case we decide to use something else. I would prefer you use your real name on the photo gallery, but if you really don't want to, please use the same username as on the forum. Please put your images into the proper categories and take care when your write out your descriptions and image names so people can search for them. I am learning this as we go. At least at the beginning, I have it set up where the administrator has to approve members. I am afraid we may get porn spam in here if we leave it open. To get to the photo gallery, use this link: http://cletrac.org/photos/

Folks, when you join the forum, or when you get the chance to update your Profile, please be sure to put your location and interests. Filling out your signature would help as well. I've been getting some spammers joining and posting links to sites that are completely unrelated to Cletrac or Oliver, or anything to do with tractors. It would make it easier for me, as well as all the other members, if you guys would put your location and interest in your profile. See http://cletrac.org/forum2010/index.php?topic=1299.msg5184#msg5184

Thanks,
Administrator
 
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1  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / Subjects Related To All Models / Re: injectors for a hercules in a BD cletrac. on: July 31, 2016, 02:13:36 PM
Almost any rings can be purchased from Hastings Piston Ring's site.

Many older Mazda diesels were Perkins design with pintle injectors. One example is the 2.2 liter diesel that came in the USA Ford Ranger.  I have no idea if those injectors fit any Hercules though.  Mazda used that Perkins 4-135, 4-154, and 4-182 (same as used in many cars and tractors). 1960s Jeep and Checker also had them.
2  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: OC3 blade question on: July 31, 2016, 12:27:33 PM
I've got an Anderson blade with manual angle and hydraulic tilt I added.  There is also a large round metal cross-bar on top mid-way back and mid-way up that looks as though it hooked to some sort of loader add-on.  Never really knew for sure.  Kind of up where the dashboard would be if it had one.

I added the aux. trans years ago - but until this month - never really used it hard and steady.  I've got 60 acres of woods in the Michigan UP and just trucked my HG there (and it will stay there for good, most likely).   Got over 1 1/2 miles of road to build. I just spent over a week of using that HG all day, every day, pushing out roots, stumps, dirt, etc.  I cannot not imagine not having the aux.   I found that some things required me to be in 1st gear/ 1st gear (as low at it goes).  Most work with the main trans in 1st and aux. trans in 2nd.  Has enough traction to move things when geared that low.  A few times I tried it as it would be with no aux and it was pretty useless. WAY too fast and I'd have to slip the clutch and lug the engine to do anything.   Great little machine and perfect for this sort of work. Only trouble so far is I use near a gallon of coolant a day and when it's 90 F outside - the engine runs at 230F when working hard.  I just found out the radiator is almost totally plugged with grease and dirt.  It also does not help that most of the front area of the radiator is blocked by a vertical hydraulic tank.
3  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / Subjects Related To All Models / Re: Push button starter switch search ?? on: May 13, 2016, 12:54:16 PM

With over 45 years as an industrial electrician I doubt my theory is wrong. What you are missing is the circuit impedance of a 6 volt starter (windings) is half that of the windings on a 12 volt starter. You won't get half the circuit current unless you have a 12 volt starter also to limit current. If you do not change the circuits resistance to current flow (inductive impedance or resistance) the current will be proportional to the voltage applied. Think about what happens to a 6 volt light bulb if you apply 12 volts to it. It gets brighter and burns out because you increased the voltage without changing the bulbs resistance. Same thing with any 6 volt components on a 12 volt battery, Over current! Ohms Law: Current=Voltage/Resistance, works every time.


My years working as an electrician are equal to your's.  Type of work I did compared to you  is likely different. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  As I see it, it is a matter of what actually happens in real-world use.   Same starter button with a 12 volt battery has virtually no drop across it, no obvious heat, and the starter spins over like crazy.   Switch the battery to a 6 volt (same size/capacity as the 12 volt) and I get substantial voltage drop across the same push-button switch along with a lot of heat.   Also note that the OEM Delco starter on the HG and OC3 is rated at 500 amps @ 4.7 volts at max draw (2350 watts).  The push-button switch I got is rated for 100 amps at 6 volts (600 watts).  My statement/claim about "twice voltage/half current" was not meant to be 100% accurate. Obviously, if a starter turns over faster on 12 volts then when on 6 volts, more work is being done (not accounting for the heat waste when 6 volt is used).  If I was bored - I guess I could stick an inductive amp meter on the cable and get a reading, but can't say I really care. I already know the push-button suffers from excessive loss when used with 6 volts and does not when used with 12 volts.

One update.  After having three push-button 100 amp rated switchs not work, I went to a local Carquest store. I looked through their electrical catalog and found a push-button switch sold for an American LaFrance firetruck with a 6 volt system. No amp rating given but made for a bigger engine then my HG has. Oddly, they had one on the shelf that may have been sitting there for 30 years. Made in the USA.  Obviously better quality then anything else I'd tried but oddly was not physically any bigger then the others.  Still had 5/16" studs.  Put it in and it WORKS GREAT.  WAY better then the others. Maybe better, more conductive material in the internal contacts. 
4  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / Subjects Related To All Models / Re: Push button starter switch search ?? on: May 07, 2016, 11:57:09 AM
Case in point, I'm still using my original 6 volt starter and delivering twice as much voltage (12v) so the starting current is now almost twice as much as it was with a 6 volt battery.

You have your understanding of electrical theory backward.  Twice the voltage means half the amps.   The OEM starter on a Cletrac HG or Oliver OC3 can draw up to 500 amps when hooked to a 6 volt battery.  If hooked to a 12 volt battery it can only draw 250 amps. Every push-button starter-switch NAPA sells is only rated for 100 amps @ 6 volts which is way less then needed.

When working correctly with 6 volts, the starter on my HG should drop no lower then 4.5 volts AT the starter when cranking.  That when battery voltage (at the battery) drops to 5 volts.  I.e, a 1/2 volt drop is tolerable in the wiring.  In this case - voltage at the input of the push-button switch is 5 volts, and at the output it is 4 volts.  A full 1 volt drop under load.  I did not even need to do a test since it gets very hot, very fast -so obviously battery power is wasted making heat instead of cranking my engine.
5  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / Subjects Related To All Models / Push button starter switch search ?? on: May 05, 2016, 09:46:08 PM
My specific problem right now is with my Cletrac HG with the Hercules IXB3 engine. But this relates to any tractor with a 6 volt system.  In the winter, I often disconnect the charging system and put in a 12 volt battery so it will start. It is too sluggish on 6 volts in cold weather and just barely adequate in warm weather.

Here is my confusion. I found out after some voltage-drop testing that most of the problem is loss in the push-button starter switch.  I bought a new one and have the SAME problem. Now -after some research - seems every push-button switch I can find is only rated at 100 amps and that is ridiculous. It will work when hooked with 12 volts but not HD enough for 6 volts that needs twice the amperage. Not even close.  My 6 volt Delco starter is rated for 60 amps no-load and 500 amps fully loaded.  Probably should draw around 200-250 amps during normal cranking @ 4.5 to 5 volts.  Yet - I cannot find a push-button switch anywhere rated more then 100 amps.  Is nobody making them anymore?  100 amp rated switches sold for a 6 volt system are a rip-off, in my opinion. If that is all there is - no wonder so many convert to 8 or 12 volt systems.  If anyone knows where a true HD 6 volt switch is available, please post the info.  Even with electric-solenoids for 6 volt systems - so far I'm only finding ones rated for 200 amps max, but at least that's better then the mechanical push-button at 100 amps.
6  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: on: April 30, 2016, 08:30:59 AM
Huge thanks. This is great. I will do this later in 2009. At the same time, what do you think of this starter set-up. Would you agree that the original starter is not up to the job? I am a new OC-3 with Ware 3-WI owner.

http://www.autoelec.com/html/oliver_cle ... educt.html

I am having trouble starting it in this cold weather. I tried a 12volt jump-start. I won't do that again, although it worked! And two 6v batteries won't do it either. Frustrating when you have 4 feet of snow to clear!

Did you unhook the 6 volt battery before jumping with 12 volt?  I've jumped my HG with 12 volts for years in the winter and it has always worked great.  Even when below zero F it spins very fast.  I rebuilt the 6 volt generator in my machine 20 years ago and since it works fine, I hate to replace it with an alternator.  Since my HG usually only gets used in the summer, it is usually NOT an issue.  But when I DO have to use it in the cold - I unhook the 6 volt battery and unhook the generator and then stick a 12 volt battery in it.  I am debating now what to do. I just bought some new remote property in the Michigan UP and am going to take my HG up there and leave it there - maybe forever.  There is no electricity other then some solar I will be putting in.  So now I am debating putting a new 6 volt battery in my HG, or converting to 12 volt with an alternator. I've got piles of small alternators that will fit right in (from Geo Trackers). Nice thing about 12 volt is I've always got a few extra 12 volt batteries around. Not the case anymore with 6 volt. But as I said, the original 6 volt generator works fine.  Just a situation of poor cold starting which may not be an issue anymore. I also suspect I could improve it with an new push-button starter switch.  The one on it now was for a 12 volt system and gets hot when used with 6 volts, so I know there is a substantial voltage-drop across it.
7  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / Auxiliary Transmissions / Re: UPDATE: AUX conversion ..DONE!!! on: April 26, 2016, 10:40:11 AM
I suspect that is because the reverser used in the OC4 is nowhere near as rugged as what you get with a Ford Model A for an aux in an HG and OC3.   I have used my HG many times and worked it hard in reverse-reverse. No particular advantage to doing it. Just did it because I could.  Model A Ford trans is a very rugged unit.  Funny thing is - I've had my aux in my HG for years and done a lot of dirt-moving and log-pulling. Zero problems. But every once in awhile I stick the aux in 3rd that makes the HG as it was with NO aux - and now . . I cannot believe how fast and almost useless it is that way.

Funny thing about the original Trasco setup. Why did Oliver bother to remachine the input shaft to accept the original style clutch disk? Makes NO sense to me. I left my Model A trans original and used a Ford Model A disk and it has worked great.
8  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: Track Press Search on: April 26, 2016, 10:29:40 AM
I did a lot of track work at a John Deere dealership. We never took the pads off any tracks unless they had sealed bushings. That or those that had interlocking pins and bushings that required the chain links to be spread sideways to let the bushing fit into a recess on the inside of each link.  I never removed pads doing little HG-OC3 tracks or on Deere 40, 420, 440, 350s, and 450s. I DID have to remove pad bolts on one side with some aftermarket Berco tracks on an Allis Chalmers H3.
9  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: HG -OC3 magneto choices on: April 26, 2016, 09:41:54 AM
Update.  I bought one of those new Slick Aviation magnetos.  As I said earlier, mount and rotation is correct. One problem is the impulse only works when it is sitting sideways.  So I took it apart and see now way to make the impulse work when mounted vertically on my Hercules IXB3.  There is an impulse trigger plate with adjustments that go 30 degrees, not at least 90 degrees like I need to mount on my Hercules engine.  The only way to change this thing that I see (without some difficult mods) is to get a different plate from Slick if there IS one.  I did some research on Slick and all I find is doom and gloom.  Used mostly on small aircraft and parts prices are crazy. E.g. a new coil is $400.  A new condensor is $100.  So even if they had a different impulse dog plate - it would likely cost over $200.

So I finally opted to just buy another magneto outright. I've been looking for a used and correct Wico mag for years to rebuild but am now giving up. Note my HG has had a Fairbanks Morse FMJ-4B3 mag on it since I got it (from an Allis Chalmers).  Impulse is a few degrees off but worked OK for many years other then having a bad coil.
I ordered a rebuilt Wico XH1113 from Mainely Magnetos for $325. I also orderd a new coil for my Fairbvanks Morse mag and will fix it and keep as a spare. I am bringing my HG to leave at a remote camp in the Michigan UP and don't want problems up there.  At home - I was okay for using for a hour, then having it sputter and quit, and coming  back later to use again once it cooled off. Now I want it fixed right.

By the way, I have a Wico battery-ignition distributor I was temped to install and convert to battery-ignition. Just more complications though.  A self-powered mag is nice and simple.

I will also note that my Hercules IXB3 has a lot less room around the mag then others.  My engine, at some time, got a new exhaust manifold and it is a Hercules replacement and NOT an Oliver manifold.  It came with an off-set adapter to move the carburetor to the back.  This because the carb mount on the replacement manifold sits a lot lower then the original Oliver manifold did.  Looks very Rube-Goldberg but it came directly from Hercules as a "manifold replacement" kit.  As I recall, with the original Oliver manifold, the carb sits much higher and gives more room to access the magneto.
10  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: HG -OC3 magneto choices on: April 25, 2016, 08:54:37 AM
Hey John. Give Steve a call at Mainely Magnetos 207-834-7309
He'll know, or he'll find out, I am sure.

Thanks.  I saw his Website and he has new Wico mags for $400.  That is pretty much what I find at any mag seller.  I am cheap enough that I hate spending $400 plus shipping on a magneto IF it can be avoided.  The brand-new magnetos made by Slick Aviation look like a bargain for $100 IF they can be made to work on the HG or OC3.   These mags were special made for the military to be used on Continental F162 four-cylinder engines.  Rotation is correct, and so is the mount.  Main issue is the impulse.  These Slick mags are made to be mounted sideways.  When held upright like when mounted on a Hercules engine - the impulse does not work. So I am taking one apart to see if there is an easy way to change it. If so, $100 is a heck of a bargain for a brand-new magneto.  There are still many for sale on Ebay as military surplus.
11  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / Re: Track Press Search on: April 24, 2016, 01:20:10 PM

If anyone has a lead on any literature specific to Oliver track press set-up, I'd be grateful. On most other tracks the grousers are bolted and hence easily removable from one side of the pad to press the bushings in the other direction, but on Cletracs and Ollies they are riveted.


Why would you want to take pads off to do the work?  I did many HG and OC3 tracks on a little OTC press at a John Deere dealership.  Small press we only used with small crawlers like Deere 40s and 420s. When my boss dumped the good-working press at the scrapyard, a local farmer dragged it away, took it home, and started doing small crawler track work for people. I took a pair of HG tracks to him around 10 years ago and he did them for me. No pad removal.  Just had the bushings turned and put in new pins.  Worked out fine.  It is likely someone in that area now has that little press.  Oneonta area of central New York.

By the way, I met a guy last year here in northern Michigan (Rogers City) that did his own pins and bushings on a Deere 420 with a 50 ton log-splitter. He just made his own custom cradle and it worked.  Can't say it would have to power on all small tracks. Much depends on how many times those bushings have been out and how tight they are.
12  Cletrac Tractor Discussion / HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General / HG -OC3 magneto choices on: April 24, 2016, 12:39:50 PM
My magneto in my Oliver HG keeps crapping out. Takes 2-3 hours of hard use with my HG crawler before it starts losing spark and finally dies. Once it cools off, it works fine again for a few hours. It's been doing this for years but now I am moving it to a very remote location and want it working right. My little HG is a user, not just a collector's item. Has a six-way blade and an aux. trans and is a great little machine for trail work.
Has the Hercules IXB3 engine and has had a mag from an Allis Chalmers on it since I owned it (30 years). Fairbanks Morse FMJ4BA3. I'm pretty sure it has a bad coil. I'd like to get a replacement mag and put it on. Then fix the old one and keep it for back-up.

The most common mag I see for sale is a new Wico XH1113. I also see a few places selling the Wico XH894.

One thing I am wondering. There are brand new military surplus mags for sale made by Slick to go on Continental four-cylinder engines. I am wondering if such a mag would work? Only $100 brand new, old stock. Flange-mount, CW rotation, 5/16" drive-lugs, and 15 degree impulse. My Hercules calls for 20 degrees but I assume it might work anyway? This is a Slick model 56 magneto. Anybody ever tried one? $100 seems like a bargain.
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