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Author Topic: Track Question  (Read 15917 times)
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do-gmc
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 02:34:37 PM »

I just acquired an M2 is very good condition except that one track has the rubber portion of the track pads worn away.  I happen to work for Michelin Tire who owns BF Goodrich and I will see if I can find any information as to the existence of the old molds and the possibility of producing tracks.  We sold most of our vintage tire molds to Coker Tire about 5 years ago.  Don't know if those molds were included.  I will also see if I can find any information on re-vulcanizing rubber to the metal pad base.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by do-gmc » Logged
pmarriott
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 04:01:26 PM »

Hi there

If it was possible to remanufacture these tracks it would be great news as they could be used rather than worrying whether the sixty year old tracks would break!

I certainly would be interestted in at least one set may be more and there would be several others in the UK who would want tracks if it was possible.

If it helps the BF Goodrich part numbers are:

Complete track assembly        74WB14

Just the rubber band               74B14

Rubber track pads                  W-14

If the moulds still exist then it is probably very feasiable to make the tracks with modern materials. If no moulds exist then probably no chance!!!

The track bands are the problem as there are plenty of companies out there who could easily re-rubber the pads.

The other option is to get extended M3 halftrack tracks made. This maybe a more cost effective option.



Look forward to hearing the outcome.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by pmarriott » Logged
do-gmc
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2008, 08:10:07 PM »

I hope that we can get some where with this.  I don't think the actual rubber molds are the problem.  The problem will be with the metallic portion of the track.  They are constructed from a continuous cable held together with forged steel cross ties.  This is the section that the pad bolts to.  The forging together of the cables will be the extreme cost.  Our operation at work uses a large amount of belting.  I will talk with one of our main suppliers (they have a small specialty operation) to determine their feeling on the feasibility of producing a track.  It may take me several weeks to get some information but I will post it as soon as I know something.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by do-gmc » Logged
pmarriott
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2008, 05:32:59 AM »

Hi there

I agree the steel items may be an issue, what if it is possible to use the old forgings with new steel cables and rubber???

I have a couple of broken tracks at home and over the weekend if time perimits I will cut back the rubber and see whats inside. It may help!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by pmarriott » Logged
Ol Paint
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2008, 09:56:27 PM »

It would be very interesting to find out exactly what the metallic portions of the track look like.  It is possible that BF Goodrich has information in their archives regarding the construction of these tracks.  If you do some surgery on your old tracks & take some pictures, I'd like to see them.

It probably wouldn't be hard to engineer a substitute set of cables and crossbars that could be fabricated & provided to the manufacturer, if necessary.

Douglas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Blake Malkamaki
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2008, 11:07:32 PM »

My Gramps said the MG1 tracks had piano wire in them.

Blake
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Blake » Logged

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do-gmc
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2008, 09:46:51 PM »

My understanding is that the tracks are constructed of steel cable similar to that used on winches and aircraft control surface cable.  This is the standard construction method for conveyor belting used in the mining industry.  The same cable used in these mining conveyor belting would be more that strong enough for the tracks.  Many of the conveyor belts run sever hundred feet and transport several tons of material.

I will to see what BFG has in the archive departments.  Does anyone know what BFG plant the tracks were made.  Opelika, AL, Tuscaloosa, AL or Fort Wayne, IN?  That will help point me in the right direction.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by do-gmc » Logged
Ol Paint
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2008, 12:22:48 PM »

do-gmc,

That's my recollection of the broken tracks I've seen, but I haven't had the chance to examine one up close.  I want to say that the cables were fairly thick, but, frankly, I didn't have the time to examine it up close.

It might be possible to strip old, broken tracks, refurbish the cross-bars, and splice in new sections of cable, but the effectiveness will depend on the condition of the metal and the method of construction.  The crossbars are probably riveted, swaged, or bolted to the cables, but we won't know unless the Goodrich archives turn up something, or someone gets the time to do some surgery on the tracks.  

pmarriott,

If you have a broken track section to work with, liquid nitrogen and a sledgehammer could probably break up the rubber on a section of the track to expose the metal (but not something commonly found in the local hardware store).  I don't know if packing the section in dry ice will chill the rubber enough to make it brittle.  It could always be burned, but only if it's legal & wouldn't offend your neighbors.  Otherwise, it's going to be tough going, I expect.  I've never tried to dissect a tire, much less a set of rubber tracks...

Douglas
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blkgld
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2009, 11:12:38 PM »

I have a copy of the patent papers made by a Robert Mayne of Akron Ohio, of the rubber impregnated wire and the track.They are in adobe pdf form, and I do not know how to publish them. The cables appear to be 1/4"  wire cable. The cable then runs thru a two piece steel crossbar,with holes molded between them for spacing of the cable.There a 8 individual cables running the length of the track. Plus I have talked ot many companies about making the track. I found one company who could do it for a price. A high price! :roll: I will look tomorrow for all my notes on the tracks. By the way me and buddy on 4 Mg 1's.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by blkgld » Logged

Mark
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« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2009, 08:06:01 AM »

Quote from: "blkgld"
I have a copy of the patent papers made by a Robert Mayne of Akron Ohio, of the rubber impregnated wire and the track.They are in adobe pdf form, and I do not know how to publish them. The cables appear to be 1/4"  wire cable. The cable then runs thru a two piece steel crossbar,with holes molded between them for spacing of the cable.There a 8 individual cables running the length of the track. Plus I have talked ot many companies about making the track. I found one company who could do it for a price. A high price! :roll: I will look tomorrow for all my notes on the tracks. By the way me and buddy on 4 Mg 1's.


I'd like to get a copy of the PDF.  Check your PMs for my e-mail address.  What were they quoting to make the track and did they have a lower price for a larger production run?  

Also, I assume the high price had to do with the need to make the mold.  Which brings us back to the question:  what happened to the original molds?  Maybe I should get my tail in gear and contact BF Goodrich...

Douglas
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blkgld
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« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2009, 10:42:06 AM »

I talked to a Brian Carroll,http://Carrolltech.com  He said if I would some how get a track to him, he could make the molds and everything. It was a couple of years ago, but the price was around 30,000 to get started.
I also talked to BF Goodrich and they could not even begin to tell me what happened to the molds. I will give Brian a call Monday.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by blkgld » Logged

Mark
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« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2009, 12:06:16 PM »

Quote from: "blkgld"
I talked to a Brian Carroll,http://Carrolltech.com  He said if I would some how get a track to him, he could make the molds and everything. It was a couple of years ago, but the price was around 30,000 to get started.
I also talked to BF Goodrich and they could not even begin to tell me what happened to the molds. I will give Brian a call Monday.


Offhand, that doesn't actually sound too bad, depending on what is, or isn't, included.  For instance, if that's a ROM cost for 10 sets including the non-recurring costs (engineering & tooling), that works out to $3,000 a set.  It'll make a big difference depending on how much of that cost is recurring and what it works out to on a per-set basis.  If we can get enough people together to put their money down, we might get the individual cost down to a reasonable level.  

Thanks for doing some legwork on this--I haven't done anything but think about it, at this point.

Douglas

P.S.  I got the e-mail.
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waayfast
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« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2009, 12:08:19 AM »

BLKGLD
   Sir, I too would like to get a copy of the patent pdf. A few years ago I did some looking into bf goodrich patents and found what I thought was what we are looking for --unfortunately I didnt keep(lost?) the dang material.  :evil:
   I'm hoping that we can come up with a solution to this problem, these are cool machines that have a lot of history and ought to be saved.
  I have pm you with my contact info.
   thanks Jim
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by waayfast » Logged

Bite off more than you can chew--then chew like h!#*
pmarriott
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« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2009, 04:27:52 PM »

Hi there

These guys at Carroltech are the same guys that have just made new M-29 Weasel tracks for customers I believe.

If a set of track bands was around $3000 I would probable have three sets or more depending on final costings. I also know of several other people in the UK who would buy tracks so probably around six to ten sets would be needed in the UK.

I know where there are three other wrecks in the UK and tracks would make them good strter projects.

Did they give you any idea about the cost to rerubber a set of track pads to go with the tracks???

If these guys have managed to do M-29 tracks then they have a very good grounding for MG-1 tracks.

I also would like to see the patent pdf file if someone could email it to me.

I have finally started work on my MG-1 the engine is out and head off, bores are perfect and have been rebored to +20. I need to regrind the valve seats and strip the entire engine for cleaning before putting it back together for a test run later in the year if possible.

I too will need a new ring gear as mine has flat spots, I may try and remove and reverse it and grind a 45 degree on the back. Does anyone know where to get a carburettor and fuel pump rebuilt kit form?Huh

My engine has sat mainly in the vehicle outside from 1953 and after a bit of diesel done the bores turns by hand!!!

Regards

Paul

New tracks would make all our vehicles an investment!!! :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by pmarriott » Logged
Ol Paint
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« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2009, 05:51:12 PM »

The patents blkgld sent me can be downloaded by clicking these links:  
Link 1
Link 2

You guys are lucky with your engines.  My '42 had water, carpet fibers, and gasoline in one cylinder, rust in another, and nicely rusted up tappets....  ;)

Douglas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
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