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Author Topic: WXLC-3 and RXLC Commonality?  (Read 4049 times)
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Ol Paint
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« on: April 27, 2009, 08:24:38 PM »

The engine in my 1942 M2 is siezed up hard & I am in the process of chiseling the pistons out.  I have a chance to buy a running Hercules RXLC that is part of a generator set.  According to the engine tag, the RXLC has a bore and stroke of 4-5/8"x5-1/4"(?)--I know the bore is correct, but didn't write down the stroke.  The engine setup has a gear-driven generator where the governor is mounted on the M2 WXLC-3.  Also, the crankcase on the generator RXLC has an extended sump that runs all the way back to the bellhousing flange, as opposed to the center sump used on the WXLC-3.  




Overall length appears to be the same, and the pad where the oil/cooling water enters the block appears to be in the same location, although the RXLC has a remote mounted filter instead of the twin filter & oil cooler on the WXLC-3.  The RXLC has two cylinder heads--one for each three cylinders.

Does anyone know how to decipher the Hercules engine model letters?   Or, better, if the accessory drive housing bolt pattern and crankcase bolt patterns are common between the WXLC-3 and RXLC?

I'd like to keep the M2 original, although I have no issue stepping up in displacement, but if the engine won't let me swap across the crankcase (so that the engine will bolt up to the existing adapter plate) and the accessory drive can't be swapped across to run the WXLC-3 governor, it doesn't get me any closer to getting a running crawler.

I've left a message with Jerry Biro of Hercules Engine Parts hoping he might be able to answer these questions, but I'd appreciate any input you guys might have.

Douglas

For reference, here is the WXLC-3 from my 1942.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Robert Barbour
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2009, 09:15:43 PM »

The RXCL is 4 5/8 by 5 1/4 stroke as you say.  It is a heavy engine 1200 lbs with out assessories. The main diameter is 3.5 Inches so I don't think the flywheel from the WXLC3 would fit the RXLC crank. Also the WXLC3 is a counterblanced engine rated to 3000 rpm the RXLC is not and only rated to 2400 rpm intermittent, 1800 continuous.  The RXCL is a rare engine too, most likely harder to find than a WXLC3 if you were looking for one!!  I would call Sam Winer Motors in Akron Ohio for WXLC3 parts, they may have a complete engine, their number is 330 628 4881 ask for Rich he is their Hercules man.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Robert Barbour » Logged

Robert from Vancouver Island BC
Ol Paint
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 06:08:35 AM »

Thanks for the reply--it sounds like the RXLC isn't suitable for what I need (a block that isn't seized).  The lack of counterbalancing would be a showstopper.

I've tried to work with Sam Winer several times and I can't get them to return calls or to tell me what they have.  They were advertising a complete WXLC-3 on Rock & Dirt and, when I called about it, they didn't know if they still had it, wouldn't give me a price, and never called me back after they went to check.  After repeated calls over the space of a couple of weeks without response, I'm taking my business elsewhere unless they have something no one else does.  Sounds like you've had better luck with them.  

Jerry Biro has all of the components to build a complete WXLC-3, if I want to go that route, but I was hoping I might be able to get a good engine without having to arrange shipping for a heavy item like that since this genset is "local" to me--only a hundred or so miles away.

Other than missing sheetmetal, the genset appears to be in excellent shape and I'd snap it up if I had space (and time) for another project. I live in an apartment, though, and rent storage for the M2 (my garage is filled with take-off parts for restoration), so space for extra projects isn't viable until the M2 is reassembled.  :(  More's the pity...

Is there any good resource for learning more about Hercules engines short of ordering the repair manuals for every model of engine?

Douglas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Blake Malkamaki
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 03:12:42 PM »

How does the WXLC-3 compare to a JXC or JXD? I know the WXLC-3 is balanced for higher speed, but what is the difference in displacement and physical size?

I'm just wondering if you guys who are having trouble finding WXLC-3 engines could use a JXD instead, at least until you can find the correct engine?

This whole idea arises because I have a Cletrac BG with an MG1 engine in it. I'm not sure what all work had to be done to get it to fit.

Blake
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Blake » Logged

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Ol Paint
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2009, 05:16:10 PM »

The JXD is a smaller engine in terms of displacement.  320cid vs. 404cid for the WXLC-3 and 529cid for the RXLC.  Bore & Stroke is 4"x4.25" vs. 4.25"x4.75" (WXLC-3) and 4.625"x5.25" (RXLC).  Horsepower (as used in the M8 armored car, at least) is 110hp @ 2800rpm compared to 150hp at 3,000rpm for the WXLC-3.  It'd probably work okay, but has less power.  

I was hoping to get a running engine to get my M2 running a little sooner, then rebuild the WXLC-3 to put back in the genset (I was really hoping the genset was one of the M7s as has been posted elsewhere on this site--oh, well).  Depending on how much someone is willing to spend and the amount of labor they want to put into it, many of the engines people usually scrap out can be rebuilt.  But there's always the question of whether the expenditure is worth it.

Douglas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Robert Barbour
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 10:32:34 PM »

Yes I have had good luck with Sam Winer.  The other place to look for military Hercules parts is M & M Surplus sales in New York. Talk to Danny there. He Advertises on this site!.   The main size on the JX engine is 2.5" and 2.625 on the WX. I don't think the bellhousing or flywheel from your WX will fit a JX.  However I think the MG uses a modified B Cletrac tractor transmission and diff, so an engine from a BG will likely fit.  You would need an engine from the B to get the proper bellhousing and oil pan.

I am in the process of putting a rebuilt Military RXC into my DG. I have to change the Bellhousing, Oil Pan, front gear cover, governor, intake and exhaust manifolds, Carb etc to make it fit.  The plus side is that it comes with an air compressor, so I am looking for the air steering parts from a DD to put on my DG.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Robert Barbour » Logged

Robert from Vancouver Island BC
waayfast
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 11:47:29 AM »

What is the engine used in the Half-tracks?Was a fellow in California that had a "M-2 Halftrack engine" (my notes??) on E-Bay a while back--it didn,t sell but I wrote down his Phone number. I think it was complete but needed rebuilt---if anyone wants the number let me know.   Jim
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by waayfast » Logged

Bite off more than you can chew--then chew like h!#*
Ol Paint
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 04:53:49 PM »

M2/M3 halftracks used a White 160AX engine while the M5/M9s used the International RED-450B.  They are actually a good displacement match, having the following specifications:
White 160AX:  
  • Bore & Stroke:  4"x5-1/8"
  • Displacement:  450cid
  • Compression Ratio:  6.3:1
  • 128hp@2800rpm
International RED-450B:  
  • Bore & Stroke:  4-3/8"x5"
  • Displacement:  450cid
  • Compression Ratio:  6.3:1
  • 130hp@2600rpm

The White is a flathead, while the International is a overhead-valve engine.  Specs from this site:  http://www.fightingiron.com/FI-Heritage.htm

Douglas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Robert Barbour
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 09:33:34 PM »

I think the cheapest thing would be to rebuild the original engine if you have a source of parts.  Any good local engine rebuild shop should be able to do the work.  The thing to do is to disassemble your engine and have it measured up so you know what size pistons, main and rod bearings you need before you buy anything.  Then you will know what parts you need.  The best thing would to do is to have the shop that is going to do the work measure it up and tell what is required, get the parts then have the work done.  I would talk to serveral shops and which one is most interested in doing the work, they should also be able to give you an estimate of the cost once they have it apart and measured up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Robert Barbour » Logged

Robert from Vancouver Island BC
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