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Author Topic: Military Cletrac  (Read 19476 times)
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Jim Baker
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« on: June 06, 2010, 03:38:56 PM »

Back in Jan. of 09 there were some posts regarding drawings of a M2, or M1, the same, I suspect.  I, too, am a modeler, and would like to find some dimentions in order to build a model.

If the poster was able to get some drawings/dimensions, etc., and would be willing to share them, or the source, I would be ever so grateful.

I build paper models of airplanes, vehicles, etc., and would be happy to post a photo of the model Cletrac, if and when I am able to get it built...depending upon finding a starting point!  Even the width of a tread, or the diameter of the driving or idler wheel would be a good start.

Jim
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waayfast
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 10:13:35 AM »

Here is a few:(inches)
Dia.drive wheel                                             :24
Dia front idler                                               :24
Track pads                                                   :13 1/2 x 4
length(leading edge of
track to trailing edge
of track)                                                      :135
bottom of track(on ground)to top of track      :38 1/2
width to outside of tracks                             :65 1/2
length from leading edge of front road wheel
to trailing edge of rear road wheel                :76 1/2
dia. return wheel                                         :8
center to center return wheels                      :30
front of drive wheel to center of rear return  :23
Length of guide bar(horizontal frame rail
above the bogies)                                        :84 1/2
Width to outside of fenders                          :67 1/2
width of seat                                               :63 1/2
depth of seat (front to back)                         :20
height of seat(18 for seat,add 3 for mount
between seat and fender)                             :21
height of seat sides(from bottom of seat)     :10
width of cowl/radiator                                  :33
height top of fenders to top of cowl               :21 1/2
front of seat bottom to rear of fuel tank        :13 1/2
ground to top of seat back (approx.)             :62
total length of fenders                                  :139
length of fender (top surface)                       :126 1/2
width of fender                                            :15 3/4
battery tray base on right fender                   :11x23 1/2
 front of radiator to back of fuel tank            :73 1/2
 front of bumper to front of radiator
guard                                                           :22 1/2
front of bumper to front of radiator               :33
front of bumper to front of very leading edge
of fender                                                      :7
bumper                                                         :68w X 6h X 4 1/2 deep
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 11:12:28 AM by waayfast » Logged

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waayfast
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 10:54:33 AM »

Here is a few more:  (inches)
inside edge of fender to inside edge of fender:36 3/4
width of drive/idler wheels                            :9 1/2
outside to outside of a pair of road wheels
(one set bogies)   O__O O__O                       :34 1/2
Opening front of radiator                              :27 1/2w X 23 1/4h
 Total height radiator                                    :31
radiator guard                                               28 1/2h X 35w


   Hope these help!! I am building a plastic model of an MG-1.It came in a 1/48 scale model of a B-24 bomber.(Revell kit 5625).The cletrac is just an add-on to the Bomber--not very much detail- but it is the only model of the MG-1 I have found.If and when I get it done and figure out how to post pics here I'll post it.
   Jim
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 10:48:15 PM »

Thanks waayfast, for all that information.  If I can't get something started from that, I may as well hang  up my drawing board!  I will keep you up to date on the progress.   Jim
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 10:16:28 PM »

Hello Waayfast (and others),

I've put together a few lines toward a working plan for a MG1 model, thanks to Waayfast's kind provision of a whole bunch of dimensions.  So, here is a beginning.  Think this will work?  I'll keep you posted, but it will be a pretty slo go for a time.  Be patient.
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Ol Paint
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 05:53:07 PM »

That's looking really good, so far.  Are you going to model it in 3D CAD, or 2D, only?  I was going to link some dimensions, but waayfast came up with a much more comprehensive list!

Douglas
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 06:58:18 PM »

Thank you,  Ol Paint.  And I've gotten this far thanks to waafast.  By the way, can either of  you give me a measurement from the ground to the top of the fender....I am guessing at that, judging from photos.

I'm doing this with a 2D program, Ashlar Vellum Drawing Board.  I hope to get some skills together enough to do a 3D in Rhino, but that is a big order.  The 2D will do enough for what I want, and that is to build a model, from paper, to go with my paper airplanes.  

I have mined enough photos from the internet to have a pretty good idea of what most of the CLetrac looks like, and the measurements make it possible to draw something up.  I am still missing some info on the underbelly of the machine, such as what holds the track "beams", for lack of a better term, to the main frame.  I talked to Mr. Zimmerman today, and he may have something helpful.  Will work on that. I don't need a whole manual, for which would cost about $45!  

Will post as I go.
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Ol Paint
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 07:57:58 PM »

Sure, I'll try to get that dimension for you over the weekend.  

There are two longitudinal rails that run from the transmission housing forward past the engine to the front bumper supports.  This has a cross-member under the front of the engine, tying the subframe together.  The skidplates also serve double duty to hold the subframe rails together.  The track units are bolted to the subframe via heavy brackets from their crossmembers tying the two individual track units together.

Here's a picture.  Another picture from further back.  And with the engine removed.

Rhino is pretty simple to use, but the bigger problem is managing the parts count & layers to make it easier to work.

Douglas

[Edited for missing details and poorly-worded sentences.]
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 08:17:14 PM by Ol Paint » Logged
Ol Paint
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 08:08:07 PM »

Oh, and here's a scan from the maintenance manual of an underside view (aft looking forward).  As is to be expected, most of the underside is plated over with some heavy duty skidplates.  The two track frames are held together by cross-members that are, in turn, clamped to the subframe.  The skidplate is actually split into two parts, with the back half ending at the rear tubular crossmember, just above the drawbar anchor bar.

[Edit to add:  FYI, the cylinder you see on the right side of the picture is the muffler.]

Douglas
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waayfast
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 11:45:05 PM »

Wow, very nice so far!Looking at the drawing I already see several measurements I "missed".I will try to get more tomorrow and some pics of an "open" machine for you also.I am using David Doyle's book "High Speed Tractor",A visual history of the Army's tracked  artillery Prime Movers, for info for building my models both 1/48 in plastic and 1/1 in iron  Grin. The Cletrac was the smallest of the HST's.The book has a large number of very good pics of the machines.
   Jim
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:36:34 PM by Blake Malkamaki » Logged

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Ol Paint
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 07:40:55 PM »

Keep in mind that my machine is missing the engine block and everything above the fenders (hood, firewall, fuel tank, radiator, air tank, generator, etc.) as well as the winch and front bumper.  Basically just the chassis and rear end.  With that said, from the ground to the fender at the front roadwheel is 44-1/2" and the same dimension at the center of the rear roadwheel is 42-5/8 inches.  Fully outfitted, it might sit a little lower in the front--but then the springs probably sag over time, too.  Most pictures seem to show a little nose-high attitude.

Douglas
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2010, 11:50:12 AM »

Ol Paint and Waafast, I must say you guys are certainly knowledgeable, and sure willing to help a newcomer to this forum!  

The photos and scan of the Manual are great helps, as well as the ground/fender measurements.  I have noticed the nose high attitude in photos.  I kinda of like that…makes it look like it’s ready to tackle something.

Douglas, your photos remind me of earlier days when I had some antique firetrucks.  A friend had one that was mostly rust, at least it seemed to me.  He said it “just needs a little wax”.  Another friend suggested that if I wanted one, I should get it already in good shape.  That is what I did, and while my friend was rebuilding (waxing) his, I was playing with mine.  In the end, however, his made mine look like a well-used car!  So, good luck with the restoration, and I bet it is all worth it one of these days.

Jim,  there is a site that sells old plastic kits, and the B-24 with a “ground tractor” is listed at $155!  And there is one on Ebay right now that is around $26 plus $10 shipping.  So your model is pretty valuable!

Thanks again for your help, and I’ll keep reporting progress…..as (when) it happens.

Jim
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Ol Paint
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2010, 12:52:46 PM »

I got a chuckle out of the "wax" bit--and I agree completely.  It's a lot easier to start with a running machine.  Not only are you dealing with a known quantity (what works, what doesn't), but it's also pretty evident that you've got all the fiddly bits that aren't obvious when trying to make a runner out of a deadlined hedgerow reject.  I like to joke that my hobby is buying rust and cleaning it with money.  On the other hand, while it may cost a lot more in the end, it's easier to nickel and dime your way along than it is to lay out the big chunk of cash to start with, financially speaking.

I'd love to restore mine to the condition 3J1Bill's machine is in, but I'm just trying to get it to running condition at the moment.  Typical for me, I'm doing things backwards in that I bought the machine before I have a place to work on it.  I also didn't have much in the way of tools when I got started, so I'm buying that stuff as I go along, too.  I'm currently renting space about five miles away to store the tractor & do the heavy teardown & using my apartment's 1-car garage to do the light work.  I've decided that the full restoration is going to have to wait until I have a place where the workshop and living quarters are co-located--there's simply too much travel involved right now, not to mention other intrusions.

I like doing the mechanical work, but I admit I'd much rather be driving it through the woods and only wrenching for maintenance!  

If you're interested, I'm keeping a restoration log with a few photos here.  If you note the dates & the time I've spent so far, I'm not the most active restorer you'll meet...  Some of the other teardown photos may be of use to you.

Douglas

[Edited for mis-spelling.]
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2010, 08:17:30 PM »

It has been awhile since I started on working up a model of the Cletrac M1(2), but slowly but surely making progress.  Here is a copy of my drive wheel drawing (in bitmap form, not the vector it is drawn in).  And I'm making up a part from this, which I'll post a little later...assuming I can make it.  Talk about a lot of fiddlie parts!  And don't forget, the wheel is only 1" in dia. at 1/24th.  Thanks for the help getting this far.  I will be asking for more soon.   Jim
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Ol Paint
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 08:45:28 PM »

Very nice.  You'll probably have yours built before I do mine...  ;)

Douglas
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