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9/22/12 - I ask that you please add a signature line to your profiles on the Cletrac Forum to help me to determine who is spam and who is not. You don't need to drop everything and do this immediately, but please do it when you get a minute and you are visiting the forum. Just go to http://cletrac.org/forum2010/index.php?action=profile and put something in the signature area. If you no longer want to be a member on the Cletrac Forum, please remove your membership.

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Folks, I just added a new photo gallery where you can upload your own pictures with descriptions, etc. Right now this is in the beta testing stage to see how it works out. Give it a try, but please keep a backup copy of your pictures just in case we decide to use something else. I would prefer you use your real name on the photo gallery, but if you really don't want to, please use the same username as on the forum. Please put your images into the proper categories and take care when your write out your descriptions and image names so people can search for them. I am learning this as we go. At least at the beginning, I have it set up where the administrator has to approve members. I am afraid we may get porn spam in here if we leave it open. To get to the photo gallery, use this link: http://cletrac.org/photos/

Folks, when you join the forum, or when you get the chance to update your Profile, please be sure to put your location and interests. Filling out your signature would help as well. I've been getting some spammers joining and posting links to sites that are completely unrelated to Cletrac or Oliver, or anything to do with tractors. It would make it easier for me, as well as all the other members, if you guys would put your location and interest in your profile. See http://cletrac.org/forum2010/index.php?topic=1299.msg5184#msg5184

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Author Topic: Military Cletrac  (Read 19477 times)
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2010, 09:28:21 PM »

Well, I've decided that I can make a paper model of a MG-1 at 1/24 th scale.  But it will take alot of time, and a lot more drawing.  I am thinking I should order up a manual to help figure out the details.  And call on Oil Paint and Waafast again for more information.  However, for now, I have a couple of models under construction that I want to finish up for the Paper Modelers Convention in DC in Oct.  So, I am putting the Cletrac aside until then.  Not quiting by any means....I'm pretty fired up to make this.  Here are a couple of photos of the Drive Wheel at 1/24th....1" in dia.!
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hotratz
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 11:29:57 AM »

That is phenomenal. What is the process after doing the drawings to produce those pieces?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 08:27:41 AM by hotratz » Logged

Jim Baker
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 09:50:34 PM »

Quote from: "hotratz"
That is phenomenal. What is the process after doing the drawings to product those pieces?

Here is the simple explaniatin.  I print the parts on heavy paper, cut them out, and glue them together.  

What is not so simple is the time and patience it takes to get it all together correctly!  The spokes are a double thickness of paper (this is made of cardstock, about .03 thick). Then after everything is cut out, I put the inner wheel and part (for lack of a better word) where the spokes attach into a jig I made to help line everything up. I put the inner rim into the jig and proceed to glue the 20 spokes I've cut out (with an x-acto knife) to the inner and outer pieces with white glue. When that is dry, I glue on the outer rim, then Imake the other side.  The sprocket wheel is 4 thickness of paper, cut out and sandwiched between the two wheel halves.  Then the shaft end was cut out of about 5 thicknesses of paper.  And there you have it.  The rest of the model will be built the same way, using cut and assembly methods.  Most will be to scale (as I can determine), although some of the hidden parts will be glossed over.  As with most models, some things are not exactly as the original, but a representation as best as possible.

Thank you for your appreciation!
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hotratz
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 08:28:24 AM »

Un-believable! Roll Eyes  That seems to be more work than restoring an actual MG-1. How many hours do you anticipate this project taking? Or maybe a better question would be "how many hours do you have in just that one part"?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:35:26 PM by Blake Malkamaki » Logged

Jim Baker
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 10:33:42 PM »

Quote from: "hotratz"
Un-believable! :shock: That seems to be more work than restoring an actual MG-1. How many hours do you anticipate this project taking? Or maybe a better question would be "how many hours do you have in just that one part"?

I would say it took me about two-three hours to cut out the parts and assemble the wheel. But it took another, probably three, hours to figure out and make the jig to put them together.  The real time consumer was doing the drawings for the parts.....many refinements along the way, redrawing parts so I could make them (!) etc.  That was eight, ten hours at least.  But I won't have to do that again for the drive wheel, and the jig is made, so the next one should be a little over two hours.

But, from the posts I have seen, I will have this finished loooong before the restorations are done.  But I would be willing to trade mine for one of the real ones - even-steven, maybe?  Doubt it!
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G-Pete
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2010, 11:42:17 AM »

I'm in the same boat as you, no drawings or 3-views to find. My scale is a little larger - the model what I like to pull with (radio controlled) is a P-38M Night Fighter. This is 1:5.4 scale - close to 10ft wing span.
I like to build the MG-1 in metal for that aircraft. You have a good start on the drawings. I will post here my progress on my drawings here.

Right now I use a 1:6 scale M5 Stuart recon version - this tank ok but just ok.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WD598#p/u/3/e8IjW1KezDE here is a little clip
and yes the model flies, the airplane not the tank <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />
http://www.youtube.com/user/WD598#p/u/6/hIWXpGmE4EM P-38M fly by

Thank you
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:34:32 PM by Blake Malkamaki » Logged
Ol Paint
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2010, 07:02:10 PM »

Nice looking P-38.  The use of the light tank to pull it is pretty cool, but you're right, a M2 model would be much nicer.  Tongue  It would be neat to convert the 2D drawings into a 3D & get a rapid-prototyping outfit to gin up some static models--stereolithograpy, 3D prints, etc.

Douglas
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G-Pete
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2010, 08:17:46 AM »

Thank you

The P-38 weighs 53 pounds, I modified the motors and speed controllers. It pulls that model effortless.

Anyhow my drawing program put many different file formats out - one of them is a .dfx. I can create 2 and 3D files, as I mentioned before I will post here the progress on that project. It will just take some time. Here in the shop I have plenty heavy machinery and a plasma table, this makes it possible to build that Cletrac out of metal. Target weight is 50lbs
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2010, 11:11:57 PM »

G-Pete and Ol Paint, the drawing program I am using is "Drawingboard" by Ashlar.  It is pretty old, but I really like using it.  It does export to a .dfx file, but something is amiss about it, because I cannot open the exported file in Rhino.  I opened it in Winpro, vectorized it (although it was already a vectorized file), and then I could open it, but that is about all.  I am a klutz with Rhino.  Someday I may learn to use it...if I live to be 100.  For my purpose, the 2D files are all I need to build a model.  But getting all the drawings made is a real time consumer....especially since I am working from photos, and dimensions from Waafast and Ol Paint.  I hope to get to the Air Force Museum next month with ruler and camera, and get some more facts to work with.

It would be really cool to get some rapid prototype model made, but I don't know how you could swing that.  Pretty cost intesnsive stuff there!  In my working days I was a structural package designer and salesman, and my major customers were in the auto business.  I got to see a lot of that kind of thing at their places, and attended the SAE shows in Detroit where there are always several companys demonstrating rapid prototyping machines.  Boggles the mind!  I do hope, if I ever get enought together to make a Cletrac paper model kit, to have the parts cut out by some laser cutting outfit.  That is available on paper models from europe now.  Sure saves a lot of X-acto blades and frustration!  I will be glad to share some drawings - when I get them made - to either of you to see what you can do with them.
 
G-Pete, that is a fine P-38.  A Cletrac to pull it around would be perfect!  You are talking about a pretty big model.  But that would be a real attention grabber.

It is interesting how much we all have in common with these "things" such as rust, Cletracs, RC models, other models, and things like the Oshkosh air show, etc.  I've done RC - have a RC 1/4 scale Varga Kachina (about half built now) from self drawn plans - have been to Oshkosh about 10 times, had old trucks, worked in highway construction where I got a chance to play with bulldozers, drove a 20 ton Euclid for a summer (ah, youth),etc.  My firetruck buddy once said "its a sickness, you know!" It is reassuring to know that I'm not the only one!

Jim
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2011, 02:27:42 PM »

Well, I have not given  up on my Cletrac Model!  Slow, but making progress.  Thanks to Ol Paint and Waafast, I have been able to get quite a bit done on the drawings.  But I've pretty well used up the dimensions, and gleaned all I can from the dozens of photos from the web.  Now I need to know the width of the main frame, how the side rails are attached to the frame, what the inside of a bogie wheel looks like, and what a bogie arm looks like....for starters!  I probably won't be able to duplicate all the little points, but would like to stay true to the prototype whenever I can.  If I can, I will post a photo of my progress so far.
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Ol Paint
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 11:46:04 PM »

I haven't worked on mine since before Christmas.  The track assemblies bolt to what's termed by the manual as the "support bracket and tube assembly"--one located inboard approximately in line with each bogie cluster.  If you've looked at the picture of my '42 with the engine removed, you can see the forward tube through the exhaust cutout hole on the left hand side of the picture.  As far as the attachment of the tube assemblies to the transmission housing, I'll see what I can do about getting better pictures if someone else doesn't beat me to it.  It may be a couple of weeks, though.

Douglas
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GMendes
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2011, 04:11:48 PM »

Hello,

I arrived her while searching for information regarding the M2 Cletrac, thinking of detailing a 1/48 Monogarm model that come with their 1/48 B-24 kit. For what I see, it would need great work to achieve a accurate representation.

An accurate drawing would be fantastic! So I will follow your work and wait for your model anxiously! So, the great work beng done by Jim Baker seems to open the door to the building of a accurate model! Many thanks for sharing!

I had tought in a papermodel also, based on the monogram model, with some details taken from photos, but I  give up of fidelity due to the complex and fidly parts of the real thing and the some dimensional errors of the Monogram kit.

By the way, if doing a papermodel, 1/33 scale is common with the aircraft papermodels from Europe, so, if a commercial model is in perspective it would have great appeal. 1/25 is the scale used by many editors to AFV papermodels. However, the use of digital, scaleable files, permitt the design in any scale. If possible, the model could have some print indications, to some common papermodel scales, like 1/33, 1/25, 1/60, but I think that this would depend on the complexity of the model. I use Autocad, so I usually draw in 1:1 scale, and I can plot/print to the desired scale as needed, or scale the entire drawing/work to any scale.

One thing that I find great difficulty was finding some photos/specifications of the Hercules engine and the fit on the cletrac MG-1, also the engine cover. Maybe someone here have a few photos of this?

Best cumpliments,

G_Mendes
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2011, 05:55:12 PM »

I am pretty much at a stand still on my drawings right now because I have run out of photos and dimensions for the "innards".  There are a lot of photos on the internet, but most all of the outside.  And, thanks to Ol Paint and Waafast who have some photos of more hidden parts, as well as a bunch of dimensions, I am where I am now.  I have ordered a parts manual for the MG1/MG2, and hope I can get moving again on the drawings.

I decided to make this in 1/24 th for two reasons....one I have a couple of WWII models that were in 1/33 (Spitfire and a Mustang) , but I enlarged to 1/24th.  Easier to build, and add detail.  These are paper models, by the way.  Secondly, I don't think my fingers could put 40 spokes on a drive wheel in 1/33!  Even in 1/24th, the wheel is only 1" diameter! 

I will share the drawings in some format, probably some vector format, but it may be awhile!  Stay tuned!

Jim
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GMendes
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2012, 07:03:17 PM »

Hello,

How is your MG1 Cletrac drawings project going?

Best cumpliments,

G_Mendes
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Jim Baker
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2012, 09:24:37 PM »

Well, this project has taken a big hit.... By December of last year I had almost all of the drawings done up to the transmission case and small parts such as levers and motor details.  Then, as I was working on the drawings, the power went off.  For 30 seconds.  It was back on before I had a chance to pull the plug on the computer, and a surge fryed the motherboard.  It appeared that all the data on the hard drive was intact.  And it was....all except the last half of last year's Drawingboard drawings.  Why only them, I have yet to determine.  I keep thinking they should be there somewhere, but although I have discussed it with several guru's, no luck.  Talk about closing the door after the horse is gone - I bought a back up hard drive along with the new motherboard.

So, until I work up the energy to restart this project (I will, sooner or later), it will be a while before I can report progress or fruits of the effort in a model.

Jim
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