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Author Topic: Radiator cleaning: using citric acid, etc.  (Read 24989 times)
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Blake Malkamaki
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 09:54:43 PM »

Ok, I increased the available space for uploaded pictures, so you can go ahead and post them. Any pictures you upload and wish to remain on the site for a while, they can be uploaded to the Photo Gallery rather than to the forum. I'm going to have to start removing pics from the forum as we are getting low on space.

No, it's not you Ian. I need to make some changes to the settings and clean out some of the pictures. Won't have time today though.

Blake

Blake

I tried to put some photos of my plumbing up but I get a message that says the upload folder is full.  Am I doing something wrong?  I tried a single photos aboy 44Kb in size.

Ian
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My gramps Howard van Driest was Experimental Engineer at Cletrac and Oliver Corporation. After the plant closed, he and my uncle started an excavating business, initially using Cletrac and Oliver Crawler tractors. Please help Support This Site and give your business exposure by buying a business card sized ad.
brock38
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2011, 09:48:46 PM »

Hello Ian. The Thermostat was original fitted in the Hose's between the Radiator and the water manifold, It's like a canister (cylinder metal shape ) not like a conventional Thermostat! It as probable been removed, and replaced a by a piece of straight pipe.

Your serial number of your machine, 2L1290 was made in 1948, and it cost new in USA,  $6,336 US dollars,

numbers 2LO194 to 2L2140 were made in 1948.

brock38 Melb,
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brock38
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2011, 01:36:41 AM »

Hello Ian,
  I think your problem is in the Radiator, (Blocked Tubes ) I suggest you remove the Bottom tank from the Radiator, and you will find rusty sludge in the lower part of the Tubes, blocking off water circulations through the Radiator, If you clean out the tubes with a small bottle brush,  this should cure your Overheating problems ! Use plenty of Penetrene Oil on the nut's that hold the Core to the bottom tank, they will be red rusty, (maybe the original that were fitted back in 1948 ? ) be careful not to brake the Studs, that are screwed into the bottom Tank, you will need to make a new Gasket for between the Core and the bottom Tank,  Hope this Helps !
brock38  Winston  age 73,   Shocked
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 06:34:35 PM by Blake Malkamaki » Logged
IanR
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 03:52:48 AM »

Brock

Thanks - I now suspect you are right.  I pulled the water pump off and found it to be working as far as I can see.  The impeller is firmly connected to the shaft which as noted previously turns and doesn't leak water.  So it is back to the radiator cleaning.  Before i take the bottom tank off I'll try the citric acid cleaning and back flushing.  Taking the water pump off also allowed me to further modify the plumbing I described such that I now have a large gate valve at the bottom of the tank in the water pump line as well as the tee and ball valve after that allows me to connect a high pressure flow to do back flushing.  Still on holiday in Victoria so sometime after the 19th before I get back to it.  One other advantage of pulling the water pump off was the need to remove the oil filters.  This revealed not only significant sludge in the filter that needed removing but also that someone had previously used a silicone gasket material in excess that appeared to have blocked some of the oil passages.

I have on a previous occasion taken the top tank of the radiator but never the bottom tank.  I have 2 spare old radiators which both have holes worn through by the Britstand hydraulic pump shaft rubbing on it.

I have heard of people running soft wires or copper strips down the tubes from the top but I'm a bit nervous about doing this.

Ian
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Ian
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 05:14:32 AM »

Hi Ian , Most of the Radiator places use steel pallet strap  to rod out the core . My son just did of Fowler 3.30 radiator , which was about 90% blocked , It worked OK .
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brock38
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 02:27:41 AM »

  It is wise to have a length of String tied to the Spanner,

     When you adjust the Steering Bands through the rear Inspection Hole or even with ( top Tramsmission Cover removed )  tie a length of String onto the 3/4 AF Ring spanner ( wrench ) that you are using,  so if you Drop-It, you can easily recover it, I myself back in my early days, would cut a Ring Spanner in half so that you have a stubby size Ring Spanner, then drill a hole in handle to take a length of String tied out side the Case, so if you drop the wrench you can easily fish it out ! Because if you drop it into the Oil under the Diff centre You will have a job finding the Wrench !

brock38
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IanR
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2011, 04:35:49 PM »

Winston was kind enough to send me an email enquiring about progress as I hadn't posted on this site for a few weeks.  What follows is my reply to him:

Winston

I did as you suggested and pulled the bottom tank off and then pushed a thin metal strip down each core.  More than half the cores were blocked solid with what looks like mud more than calcium scale.   I now of course have a radiator with more leaks in tubes that had previously been sealed with radiator stop leak.

Before doing all this I did as originally planned and that was flush the radiator with a 10% citric acid solution.  I got the engine hot and kept the acid in for over half an hour before flushing with clean water.  I can?t say that it made any noticeable difference though other than eating the galvanising on some GI pipe I have on the tractor.  I suspect I didn?t leave it in long enough but I wasn?t confident about leaving it there for a week as some of the US automotive sites suggest for car radiators.

I have finally found a cheap supply of citric acid ($1.50/kg) and may have another go now that I have a 25 kg bag of it.

However I have now bitten the bullet and ordered a new radiator core at a cost of about $1500.  I?ve done this out of frustration but also because I have a second Cletrac in nearly going order that just needs a radiator.  I will put the old radiator on this second tractor. 

I am inclined to try the citric acid again though on the first tractor even with a new radiator as there appears to be a lot of scale and muck in the block.  I would not want to clog up the new radiator though so may do this with the old radiator before I replace it.

Speaking to the radiator repair bloke who is old school I am advised that there is no better solution for cleaning a radiator and block than running an engine hot before back flushing through a filter so that the crap doesn?t go back into the top tank.  He claims this peeling process done multiple times is the only way to go and that radiator cleaning chemicals of any type including citric and hydrochloric acid do not do any better job.

Your thoughts most welcome and I?m also looking forward to talking more to you down the track when I move on to refurbishing top and bottom track rollers.

Everyone else your thoughts also welcome.
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Ian
Blake Malkamaki
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2011, 06:27:39 PM »

IanR, I know a lot of guys swear by electrolysis for cleaning rust from parts. This is generally done in some kind of plastic tank, but I'm wondering if it could be done internally within your engine block? Not so much for the radiator as it might cause some destruction to the solder and brass, but if you filled your engine block up with some kind of electrolytic substance and then put the right charge on it for the right duration of time, it might come out as clean as new inside.

I don't know what the particulars would have to be, but some of the guys here may have some ideas.

Blake
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My gramps Howard van Driest was Experimental Engineer at Cletrac and Oliver Corporation. After the plant closed, he and my uncle started an excavating business, initially using Cletrac and Oliver Crawler tractors. Please help Support This Site and give your business exposure by buying a business card sized ad.
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2012, 12:27:09 AM »

Hi Guys

Its been a while since I posted or even looked at this site.  I've been busy farming, travelling and doing family things but am about to come back to my Cletrac to do some serious tree regrowth control.  Since I last posted about my overheating problems I've bitten the bullet and spent about $1500 on a brand new custom made radiator.  This has solved all my overhearting problems in one go.  The engine temperature now sits exactly where the manual says it should - 165 degrees F.  So now off to do some work although I still have concerns about the state of the tracks and the rollers.  I'll be trawling through this site and the manuals looking for info on this topic and will ask for help as needed.

Ian
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2012, 05:50:15 AM »

Hi Ian , Good to see you back posting on the forum . Glad to hear the overheating problem is now under control ..
I was down near Kingaroy at a tractor rally on the weekend .Was talking to a guy that had an OC18 Oliver .
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2012, 07:11:07 AM »

Ian

We are at Captains Mountain which is on the Goondiwindi side of Millmerran which is about an hour west of Toowoomba.  The radiator repair bloke in Toowoomba gave me names and numbers for 2 collectors of Cletracs near Toowoomba.  He says one of them has dozens of Cletracs.  When I find the piece of paper with the details I'll contact them to confirm.

Ian
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Ian
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