Title: not getting gas
Post by: kat on August 05, 2006, 08:58:06 AM
Post by: kat on August 05, 2006, 08:58:06 AM
hi all...
ok my problem is i'm not getting gas up into the engine,,
fuel pump is working,,, gas is really pouring out of the carb..... seems to have good suction when i place my hand over the back of the carb ,, but.. the plugs aren't even getting wet.... and it's not even attempting to fire....
have even tried starting fluid sprayed into the carb while cranking over still nothing....
this is a rebuilt engine.... and been trying everything i can think of to get it going..... it has good spark,, timeing's on tdc.. pulled off front cover and even checked to see if the timeing on the gears was correct,,,, it was. but still not getting gas up where it needs to be,,,
any ideas?
ok my problem is i'm not getting gas up into the engine,,
fuel pump is working,,, gas is really pouring out of the carb..... seems to have good suction when i place my hand over the back of the carb ,, but.. the plugs aren't even getting wet.... and it's not even attempting to fire....
have even tried starting fluid sprayed into the carb while cranking over still nothing....
this is a rebuilt engine.... and been trying everything i can think of to get it going..... it has good spark,, timeing's on tdc.. pulled off front cover and even checked to see if the timeing on the gears was correct,,,, it was. but still not getting gas up where it needs to be,,,
any ideas?
Title:
Post by: Bill Seal on August 05, 2006, 04:47:31 PM
Post by: Bill Seal on August 05, 2006, 04:47:31 PM
Did your hand get gas on it when you hand choked it?
If not then it's probably the carb.
Maybe the timing's off- .Try the tried-and-true thumb on the spark plug hole.
If you don't see a spark when it pops your thumb off the hole, then re-time it.
If not then it's probably the carb.
Maybe the timing's off- .Try the tried-and-true thumb on the spark plug hole.
If you don't see a spark when it pops your thumb off the hole, then re-time it.
Title:
Post by: kat on August 05, 2006, 07:21:13 PM
Post by: kat on August 05, 2006, 07:21:13 PM
yep,,,,, got gas....... lot of gas... in fact it's pouring out of the back of the carb,,,,,
did the thing with the timeing... finger on the hole. watching for spark... yep it's right about where it should be.....
but still not getting gas up to the sparkplugs ....
did the thing with the timeing... finger on the hole. watching for spark... yep it's right about where it should be.....
but still not getting gas up to the sparkplugs ....
Title:
Post by: mtncrawler on August 08, 2006, 01:13:25 PM
Post by: mtncrawler on August 08, 2006, 01:13:25 PM
Well I know the starting fluid would have made it into the cylinders so if it didn't hit then you must be either too rich, out of time, or not enough compression. Since the plugs aren't wet your probably not too rich. Sounds like youv'e looked closely at the timing. You said you can see a spark. Nice bright one? Not 180 degrees out are ya? Only thing left is compression. Has to be one of these things.
Title: No gas.
Post by: Dr Bert on August 09, 2006, 12:17:42 AM
Post by: Dr Bert on August 09, 2006, 12:17:42 AM
Kat: Would a plugged intake manifold be a consideration? Some rebuilders mask over the intake and exhaust ports while painting the block. Happened to me once. My engine wouldn't start either--when we removed the manifold, there was the masking tape.
Title: Previous post.
Post by: Dr Bert on August 09, 2006, 12:59:44 AM
Post by: Dr Bert on August 09, 2006, 12:59:44 AM
Kat--disrgard my previous post. Checked my notes-- I had no "suction" at the carb., you do, so the intake manifold must be clear. Maybe a plugged jet in the carb. Good luck.
Title:
Post by: Bill Seal on August 09, 2006, 05:33:33 PM
Post by: Bill Seal on August 09, 2006, 05:33:33 PM
Just looked at my manifold, that thing could hold a lot of raw gas in the intake passages. If you're cranking it with 6 volts, it may not be spinning fast enough get the plugs wet, but still be flooded. Try pulling the plugs and cranking it over to try to clean the passages (like Jimmy Stewart in Flight of the Phoenix 
).
).
Title:
Post by: kat on August 14, 2006, 06:06:11 AM
Post by: kat on August 14, 2006, 06:06:11 AM
checked timeing again......right on..
suction at carb good....
spark nice and bright......
compression???
well it's a fresh rebuild.... the compression seems high but the junky compression tester says it's 60-65 psi on all three cyl.... but borrowed compression tester says 115-117 on all three...... so i guess i'm going to have to go and buy a good one... and see if it's just me or what going on... i'd hate to think i paid to have someone hone the cyl's and possablly screwed them up...
but i was thinking, i did get it to fire one time,, backfired through the carb before i set the timeing..... was trying to jump it off a boost pack so it was getting 12 volts..and cranking over fast.
when it backfired it set the gas comming out of the carb on fire but,, the engine did run for a few seconds before it was turned off,
is it possable that at six volts it's just not turning over fast enough to draw the gas up to the cyl's ?
i'm going to take the carb off this weekend and see if i can get it rebuilt or at least looked at to see if it has any issues...and then try again...
thanks for your responces..... and i'll keep ya all informed.
suction at carb good....
spark nice and bright......
compression???
well it's a fresh rebuild.... the compression seems high but the junky compression tester says it's 60-65 psi on all three cyl.... but borrowed compression tester says 115-117 on all three...... so i guess i'm going to have to go and buy a good one... and see if it's just me or what going on... i'd hate to think i paid to have someone hone the cyl's and possablly screwed them up...
but i was thinking, i did get it to fire one time,, backfired through the carb before i set the timeing..... was trying to jump it off a boost pack so it was getting 12 volts..and cranking over fast.
when it backfired it set the gas comming out of the carb on fire but,, the engine did run for a few seconds before it was turned off,
is it possable that at six volts it's just not turning over fast enough to draw the gas up to the cyl's ?
i'm going to take the carb off this weekend and see if i can get it rebuilt or at least looked at to see if it has any issues...and then try again...
thanks for your responces..... and i'll keep ya all informed.
Title:
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 14, 2006, 09:33:41 PM
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 14, 2006, 09:33:41 PM
Are your spark plug wires in the right order?
Speed should be no problem as you should be able to crank it by hand to get fuel into the cylinders.
If you're getting a good suction at the carb, then I would think your compression is ok.
Did you do anything that could have changed the valve timing?
Blake
Speed should be no problem as you should be able to crank it by hand to get fuel into the cylinders.
If you're getting a good suction at the carb, then I would think your compression is ok.
Did you do anything that could have changed the valve timing?
Blake
Title:
Post by: Dr Bert on August 15, 2006, 02:22:22 AM
Post by: Dr Bert on August 15, 2006, 02:22:22 AM
Kat: Assume this is a Hercules engine. If so, did you time #1 with the Spark mark on the flywheel? (15 degrees before TDC) Also,you might
try 6 to 8 squirts of oil into each cylinder, then prime with a little gasoline. This might solve your problem. Good Luck
try 6 to 8 squirts of oil into each cylinder, then prime with a little gasoline. This might solve your problem. Good Luck
Title:
Post by: kat on August 15, 2006, 04:11:36 PM
Post by: kat on August 15, 2006, 04:11:36 PM
yep. checked the timeing with the flywheel also.......dead on
also tried the oil in the cylinders and primeing them with gas..... nothing happened..... no fireing..... not a bang or pop...... nada...
as for the spark plug fireing order...... 1,3,2 ....three cylinder go 130
valve timeing...... i don't know...... i know the engine was apart.. and the valves were taken off....... but if you mean the gears on the front of the engine under the govener,,,, yes they are correct
i'm at a total loss on what to do.... i kinda gave up last year and it's been sitting for a while inside...... i'd hate to have to pull the engine and send it out but,, this is makeing me nuts....
also tried the oil in the cylinders and primeing them with gas..... nothing happened..... no fireing..... not a bang or pop...... nada...
as for the spark plug fireing order...... 1,3,2 ....three cylinder go 130
valve timeing...... i don't know...... i know the engine was apart.. and the valves were taken off....... but if you mean the gears on the front of the engine under the govener,,,, yes they are correct
i'm at a total loss on what to do.... i kinda gave up last year and it's been sitting for a while inside...... i'd hate to have to pull the engine and send it out but,, this is makeing me nuts....
Title: not getting gas
Post by: C Tucker NW IL on August 27, 2006, 01:07:33 PM
Post by: C Tucker NW IL on August 27, 2006, 01:07:33 PM
I would suggest you forget what you think you know about the timing and go through it again. Take the valve cover off and watch #1 valve train to see when the intake is open,follow piston down to compression stroke and check for spark at the top. If you oiled and primed the cylinders and it didn't fire your sarpk is at TDC of exausht srtoke, CAUTION!! A backfire here can be hard on the eardrums in a confined space,don't ask me how I know.
Title: oc4
Post by: walter hudson on August 28, 2006, 01:16:48 AM
Post by: walter hudson on August 28, 2006, 01:16:48 AM
when timing the engine ,did you only use the mark on the flywheel ? Some hercules engines will allow you to install the flywheel in two positions on the crankshaft. If this is the case with yours ,the timing mark you are using will not give the correct timing . take #1 plug out and get it on tdc compression stroke and check the flywheel timing mark. Remove the dist. cap and see if the rotor is pointing to #1 terminal on the cap.
Good Luck Walter
Good Luck Walter
Title:
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 28, 2006, 03:45:16 AM
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 28, 2006, 03:45:16 AM
Walter, if his flywheel is 180Ã,° off, but it is otherwise timed correctly, couldn't he just change his plug wires to use #2 as #1 cylinder and continue from there in the proper firing order?
Blake
Blake
Title: timing
Post by: walter hudson on August 28, 2006, 09:35:22 PM
Post by: walter hudson on August 28, 2006, 09:35:22 PM
That is true ,you could change the plugs wires or rotate the dist. without removing it. The engine can be timed on any cylinder as long as you use compression stroke tdc .
Title: timing
Post by: walter hudson on August 29, 2006, 12:55:33 AM
Post by: walter hudson on August 29, 2006, 12:55:33 AM
Scratch my theory that the flywheel might be installed wrong . The go130 hercules has an uneven bolt circle on the crank.
Title: Not getting gas
Post by: Dr Bert on August 31, 2006, 02:48:15 AM
Post by: Dr Bert on August 31, 2006, 02:48:15 AM
Kat: Hate to belabor the timing issue, but does your tractor's flywheel have both the spark mark and the top dead center mark? Just tried to start my rebuild--same symptoms as you describe. I then read the book!! Tried to get # 1 to spark on the spark mark--wouldn't adjust far enough. Took the front off the govenor housing and moved the gear 1 tooth. Number 1 sparked right on the spark mark, the engine burst into song!!! May be worth a try. Good luck.
Title: Re: timing
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 31, 2006, 04:17:50 AM
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on August 31, 2006, 04:17:50 AM
Quote from: "walter hudson"That is true ,you could change the plugs wires or rotate the dist. without removing it. The engine can be timed on any cylinder as long as you use compression stroke tdc .
I was thinking 4 cylinder. I keep forgetting about the 3 cylinder OC-4. Those crank journals are spaced out evening as far as I know, so, as you say, the flywheel could not be reversed.
Title: thankyou for the input
Post by: kat on September 01, 2006, 03:54:47 AM
Post by: kat on September 01, 2006, 03:54:47 AM
but my problem is i'm still not getting gas up to the plugs.....
the timeing is dead on.... good healthy spark at tdc.
but the plugs aren't even getting wet......
i'm thinking theres something wrong with the carb.... had a co-worker (rebuild ) it while the engine was being done.....( in the machine, head taken off, pan removed,,, cylinders honed, new pistons and rings installed, new bearings installed,and everything replaced)
i need to find someone local who can rebuild the carb.... or knows about these little crawlers
any ideas..... warren ,ohio area
thanks again to all
the timeing is dead on.... good healthy spark at tdc.
but the plugs aren't even getting wet......
i'm thinking theres something wrong with the carb.... had a co-worker (rebuild ) it while the engine was being done.....( in the machine, head taken off, pan removed,,, cylinders honed, new pistons and rings installed, new bearings installed,and everything replaced)
i need to find someone local who can rebuild the carb.... or knows about these little crawlers
any ideas..... warren ,ohio area
thanks again to all
Title: Non running OC-4
Post by: John Schwiebert on September 04, 2006, 03:32:19 PM
Post by: John Schwiebert on September 04, 2006, 03:32:19 PM
The things you think about while mowing lawn. Read the complete post. I also sent you a PM. But for today do you have a friend that has a running gas tractor such as a Ford 2N, 8N, (N or anything else that has the same SAE size venturi opening? It is runs, borrow the carburetor and YOUR FRIEND. It will take both of you to do this. Take his carburetor off (this may cost you a beverage or maybe more than one) and when you have the carburetor off turn the idle speed (not mixture ) 2 full turns. Then install it on your crawler, hook it up to a fuel line only!. HAve your friend or you hold the throttle shaft against the idle position. Hand choke it and try to start the tractor with one of you on the seat. Remember: SAFETY FIRST!> That is why it takes 2, one on the seat one by the carburetor. It is starts then you know you have a carburetor problem. If not then we need to go to a plan B. Confused? Send me a PM with a phone number. Good luck
Title:
Post by: Bill Seal on September 04, 2006, 06:00:42 PM
Post by: Bill Seal on September 04, 2006, 06:00:42 PM
If you hand choked it and gas ran out, obviously the carb is working. You said it ran -sorta- and backfired. Do the Thumb-On-The-Sparkplug-Hole thing with all three (?) cyls, make sure you're not out of sequence (1 3 2 instead of 1 2 3). Put a little gas in the cylinders, open the throttle all the way -no choke- and spin it with 12 volts. Somewhere between flooded and starved it has to pass through stochiometric (impressive word, huh?).
If that doesn't work, sacrifice a chicken.
Preferably on the barbeque.
If that doesn't work, sacrifice a chicken.
Preferably on the barbeque.