Cletrac.org

Cletrac Tractor Discussion => All Models Except HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General => Topic started by: Jason Epperson on February 21, 2007, 12:30:43 AM

Title: question about CG
Post by: Jason Epperson on February 21, 2007, 12:30:43 AM
I have what I think is a styled CG.  But the info I have on the CG says that the track width should be 48 inches and mine is 64 inches.  Mine also has 18 inch wide track pads.  The serial tag is gone.  Did they make a CGH?
Title: CG
Post by: walter hudson on February 21, 2007, 02:41:15 AM
None of the lists I have show anything  about a CGH ,but it could have been changed for a special application .
Walter
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Post by: fightinfire on February 22, 2007, 05:46:32 PM
Is it possible that maybe you have a DGH? if I remember correctly the two were similar
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Post by: Jason Epperson on February 23, 2007, 12:27:07 AM
I guess it's possible but I have never seen a DG to compare it to.  I was calling it a CG because it has a WXLC-3 Hercules engine in it.  I think the original was a WXT and I thought this would have been the replacement for it.  Is the DG physically bigger dimension wise that the CG?
Title: question about CG
Post by: Carl Besola on February 23, 2007, 03:27:52 AM
Hello Jason, there are some pics of my DGH in the photo gallery on this site, and video on Youtube. My DGH has a Herc. RXC engine.
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Post by: Jason Epperson on February 23, 2007, 04:12:17 PM
Like the pictures.  Mine looks real close to the one pictured.  Maybe that is what I have.  I guess I need to get the tape measure out and do some more measuring.   What would be a tell tale sign to what model I have?
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Post by: fightinfire on February 23, 2007, 08:19:11 PM
You should give Landis Zimmerman a call. He could easily tell you what the exact differences were between the two. He's really easy to talk to, and he knows his Cletracs
Title: RE CG
Post by: Robert Barbour on February 24, 2007, 05:26:29 AM
Going throu all my books, it looks like the CG is much the same as the DG with a smaller engine.  Both used 7 1/4" Pitch tracks with a 5 roller track frame.  Both were available in 48 or 61 inch gauge.  The CG is just a few hundred pounds lighter.  The CG is 119 3/4 inches long the DG is 124 3/4 long.  The CG used a WXC 3 engine the DG a RXC engine. I would expect the CG is shorter due to the smaller engine and the fame infront of the transmission would be shorter.  I will measure my DG frame  so you can compare it to yours.  Does yours have one or two speeds in reverse?  The later DG had two reverse speeds the CG was not made that way.
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Post by: Blake Malkamaki on February 24, 2007, 07:16:48 PM
I think the CG was kinda a bastard size and never caught on. I have only seen one and I'm not sure it even is a C.

Blake
Title: Re: RE CG
Post by: Jason Epperson on February 25, 2007, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: "Robert Barbour"Going throu all my books, it looks like the CG is much the same as the DG with a smaller engine.  Both used 7 1/4" Pitch tracks with a 5 roller track frame.  Both were available in 48 or 61 inch gauge.  The CG is just a few hundred pounds lighter.  The CG is 119 3/4 inches long the DG is 124 3/4 long.  The CG used a WXC 3 engine the DG a RXC engine. I would expect the CG is shorter due to the smaller engine and the fame infront of the transmission would be shorter.  I will measure my DG frame  so you can compare it to yours.  Does yours have one or two speeds in reverse?  The later DG had two reverse speeds the CG was not made that way.
I would appreciate it if you would post the measurements you have for your crawler.  This crawler just has the one speed reverse.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re CG
Post by: Robert Barbour on February 26, 2007, 04:34:38 AM
With only one speed in reverse, it is a CG made from 1936 to 1942 or an early DG made from 1936 to 1939.  My DG is at my bush property and it may be a while before I get there again, but I will take some measurements and post them for you.
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Post by: Jason Epperson on February 26, 2007, 02:14:38 PM
I would appreciate you posting what you find out when you get a chance.  Thank you.
Title: CG??
Post by: Robert Barbour on March 13, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
My DG is the later 6 speed model not the early 4 speed model. I have a parts book for both and they both use the same bellhousing and front engine mount.  From the end of the bellhousing to the centerline of the first row of bolts on the front motor mount is 39 inches.  From end of belhousing to front of frame is 55 inches.  Form the bellhousing to the notch for the water pump on the left frame rail is 21 inches.  The engine in the CG is about 5 inches shorter, and I don't think it has a notch for the water pump.  If your dimensions match these you have a DG.
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Post by: Jason Epperson on March 20, 2007, 12:15:24 AM
I measured the crawler today and here is what I found.  No notch in the frame.  From end of bellhousing to first set of bolts on motor mount: 35 inches.  From end of bellhousing to end of front of frame: 50 inches.  Looks like it is a CG.  The pitch of the tracks are 7.25 inches and it has 18inch pads, 5 roller track frame, 61 inch tread width.
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Post by: Robert Barbour on March 20, 2007, 05:28:46 AM
Yes with those measurements I would agree that it is a CG, actually a CGH, the H being for the Hillside or wide track model with 61" gauge. Both the CG and DG used the 7.25 pitch tracks and 5 roller track frame.
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Post by: Jason Epperson on March 20, 2007, 02:15:09 PM
Quote from: "Robert Barbour"Yes with those measurements I would agree that it is a CG, actually a CGH, the H being for the Hillside or wide track model with 61" gauge. Both the CG and DG used the 7.25 pitch tracks and 5 roller track frame.
Thanks for all of the help with my crawler.  It's nice to know what I actually have.  Thanks again.
Title: CG engine
Post by: Robert Barbour on March 20, 2007, 07:14:48 PM
Now that we have concluded that the tractor is a CGH, What about the engine??  The original engine was a WXT, this was the early version of the wx series of engines.  The bore was 4 1/4" stroke 4 1/2" . That size later became the WXC3 when that series of engines was expanded.  The engine you say you have is a WXLC-3, this is a 4 1/4 bore by 4 3/4 stroke engine.  Now this engine was used in the M2 high speed tractor the US military used in WW11.  The M2 was made by Cletrac so it could be just a bolt in replacement!  The millitary engine had two canister type oil filters just above the water pump.  It also had a higher compression ratio of 6.5.
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Post by: Blake Malkamaki on March 20, 2007, 08:53:24 PM
Robert, do you mean the MG-1 engine?
Title: Re: CG engine
Post by: Jason Epperson on March 20, 2007, 11:00:25 PM
Quote from: "Robert Barbour"Now that we have concluded that the tractor is a CGH, What about the engine??  The original engine was a WXT, this was the early version of the wx series of engines.  The bore was 4 1/4" stroke 4 1/2" . That size later became the WXC3 when that series of engines was expanded.  The engine you say you have is a WXLC-3, this is a 4 1/4 bore by 4 3/4 stroke engine.  Now this engine was used in the M2 high speed tractor the US military used in WW11.  The M2 was made by Cletrac so it could be just a bolt in replacement!  The millitary engine had two canister type oil filters just above the water pump.  It also had a higher compression ratio of 6.5.
Th engine is a wxlc-3.  Says so on the tag on left side of engine.  It just has one oil filter though.  I had the head off and it has aluminum pistons in it but I don't recall what size they are.  The guy I bought it from said it was an old See-Bee dozer?  I thought maybe the original went bad and was replaced with this one.  The crawler is orange, no signs of olive drab.
Title: MG1
Post by: walter hudson on March 20, 2007, 11:18:20 PM
Blake , I believe the MG1 was similar to a BG with a Hercules JXC . I have never seen a picture of a MG2 .
Walter
Title: Re: MG1
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on March 21, 2007, 01:20:35 AM
Quote from: "walter hudson"Blake , I believe the MG1 was similar to a BG with a Hercules JXC . I have never seen a picture of a MG2 .
Walter

I think what some call an M2 is an MG-1. I think the MG-2 had the same engine, but I am not sure.

I know my BG has an MG-1 engine. I never heard it run, but I guess it would run pretty fast.

Blake
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Post by: Robert Barbour on March 21, 2007, 02:05:35 AM
The M2 was a seven ton high speed tractor used to pull aircraft around the runway.  They are shown on pages 249 & 250 of  the Standard Catalog of US Military Vehicles 1940- 1965 by Thomas Bernt.  It used the WXLC-3 engine.  I don't know what the MG 1 is, mayby it just another name for the same thing.  It is not a big surprize to find a non original engine in an old tractor.  These things were built for work, not for a hobbiest to play with!!  I have a 1947 DG and a 48 for parts and alot of changes were made to them over the years!
Title: MG-1
Post by: John Schwiebert on March 21, 2007, 02:20:50 AM
The MG-1 is not the same as the M2. I also think that because somebody mentioned that a couple years ago. He  had the 2 series and it was built by someone else. Also Robert does that book show a 3 series? I understand those were larger yet and wer built by A-C?
Title: Re: MG-1
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on March 21, 2007, 03:35:45 AM
Quote from: "John Schwiebert"The MG-1 is not the same as the M2. I also think that because somebody mentioned that a couple years ago. He  had the 2 series and it was built by someone else. Also Robert does that book show a 3 series? I understand those were larger yet and wer built by A-C?

I think the military designation for the MG-1 is the M2. Have to do some searching in the military section.

Blake
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Post by: Blake Malkamaki on March 21, 2007, 03:37:59 AM
Quote from: "Robert Barbour"It is not a big surprize to find a non original engine in an old tractor.

I don't think any of our family's Cletracs have the standard engine in them. My two E's I bought myself do, but most everything else is experimental and was used in developing tractors for the market.

Blake
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Post by: Jason Epperson on March 21, 2007, 10:48:47 PM
I got the numbers off of the tag today. WXLC-3, 4 1/4X4 3/4,  181398.  I assume the last is the serial number.  Any way to tell what year it is?
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Post by: Albert Duroe on March 22, 2007, 12:04:24 AM
Refer to the July/August 2005 HPOCA Magazine, page 22.  The correct name is; Cletrac Model MG-1, Ordinance Model Medium M-2.  The John Deere and the Cletrac model had the same name.  My idea is to call them anything you like, m1 or m2 or mg1 or 2.  Great article  (I wrote it)  Sparky Duroe
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Post by: Robert Barbour on March 22, 2007, 03:18:57 AM
John, there were lots of high speed tractors, the M4, M5 & M5A, M6 and M8.  AC built them all except the M5 & M5A which were built by International.  The M4 & M5's were 14 ton units, the M6 was 38 ton and the M8 was 28 Ton ( smaller then the M6 ).
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Post by: pleasantpeasant_01 on July 29, 2008, 04:59:49 PM
I came across this site the other day.  It appears very interesting.  I saw an inquiry on a model CGH.  I have one too, it has been resurected and painted up nice and sits on display in Orr, Minnesota.  It is still "usable" if it still had a "use".  I ran this cat a lot when I was a teenager.  There are some very interesting stories to be told regarding this machine.  It was used to skid pulpwood and sawlogs in the 40s, 50s, and 60s.  It is an old military unit from WWII, Olive drab paint still exists under the present paint.  This is a big machine, about D-4 size.  It has 18 inch pads and weighs about 12,000+ lbs.    I have never seen another one this size, a lot of them half this size, which look pretty much the same.  I still even have the operator's manual for it.
Hope someone else finds this interesting.
Frank,  aka,   pleasantpeasant_01@yahoo.com