Cletrac.org

Cletrac Tractor Discussion => Military Cletracs => Topic started by: R. Wilkie on January 20, 2008, 01:21:08 PM

Title: Track Question
Post by: R. Wilkie on January 20, 2008, 01:21:08 PM
Hello

  I had just read a post in the history section here.which brings up a question. Has anyone else that owns an MG1 ever took any measurements to see if the tracks from a halftrack will fit these tractors??I saw one on a site a couple of weeks ago that appeared to have halftrack tracks on it, but now I can't find the thing.

                                                           Thanks Roger
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 20, 2008, 03:54:11 PM
According to "The American Arsenal" (ISBN 1-85367-470-2, Copyright 2001, Greenhill Books), the M2 has a 4" pitch track with a width of 13.625" with a total of 148 shoes per vehicle.  Quick math makes that about 296" circumference.  Roadwheels are 14" x 4.125."

The same resource credits the M2 halftrack tracks with the same 4" pitch, but a 12" width and, because there aren't any track shoes, no estimated length.  Roadwheels are 12" x 4.125."

Per "Standard Catalog of US Military Vehicles 1940-1965 (1st Ed.)" by Thomas Berndt (ISBN: 0-87341-223-0), "The tracks were about the same construction as the half-tracks, however, they were longer and had crossbars that protruded from the sides..."

Several months ago, I ran across a picture of a bulldozer someone had found that was a converted M2 equipped with halftrack tracks.  As I recall, the front idler was repositioned in contact with the ground where the forward bogie used to be.  I've also heard that the halftrack tracks are ~2' shorter, but never investigated.  Someone on Steel Soldiers or g503.com should be able to supply measurements of the halftrack track length.

If I remember, I'll measure my M2 HST and see if the 296" guess is correct.

Douglas
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 21, 2008, 04:21:14 AM
I posted the question regarding the length of the halftrack track on another board (http://www.tank-net.org (http://www.tank-net.org)) and it was pointed out to me that Hunnicutt's "Half-Track:  A History of American Semi-Tracked Vehicles" (ISBN:  0-89141-742-7) lists the halftrack as having a pitch of 4" with 58 pitches/track.  This would make the track length 232"--64" shorter than the M2 Cletrac's track.

I will still pull a tape on mine and see if I get the 296" dimension.

Douglas
Title:
Post by: R. Wilkie on January 21, 2008, 12:31:19 PM
Douglas

 Thanks for the info,Oh well it was a thought anyway. I feel lucky that my tracks are in good shape. I knew the bogie/road wheels were different sizes,but thought the tracks would be close to the same width minus the pad overhang on the Cletrac.The length was in question.I'm 99% sure that the one I'd seen had halftrack tracks on it,the tread on them caught my attention. I think it was on a non english site. The compressor was missing and there were two gerry cans mounted on the compressor mounting plate,It may have also had a radio ant or two on it.Anyway I would like to find the photo again to get a better look.

                                                                         Roger
Title: Re Tracks
Post by: pmarriott on January 22, 2008, 08:42:40 PM
Hi there

I believe the Cletrac you are reffering too is based in France and certainly isn't totally complete. As you state it is missing the compressor and various other items. I beleive it was photographed in 2004, I have seen severval photo's of it and it is definately running halftrack style tracks, there are no track pads only the moulded cleats as on half track tracks.

I have zoomed in on the photos and cannot see how the guy has joined them, the only other option is did they make this style of track post war???

I have tried to contact the guy over the last two years and had no reply form the postings requesting details.

The pitch of the tracks is the same and if you could join them together then they will work.

Has anyone considered contacting BF Goodrich regarding remanufacturing these tracks, may be a limited run of fifty sets. I would have three sets as I have one MG-1 under very long term restoration and know of two others I could restore.

My understanding from other forums is that tyre manufacturers rarely throw out tyre moulds, maybe they still have a track mould.

I am still trying to find out if any modern rubber crawler tracks would fit these beasts, as it is very easy to change the pitch of the drive sprocket, but it would seem the problem is the track guide width. Has anyone else looked into this option.

I have a set of tracks but I know they will break very quickly as they have been poorly stored. I also have two broken tracks which I intend to cut open and document the construction of these tracks. I may then approach a track manufacturer in the UK for a costing. I think it would be very very exspensive unless there is plenty of call for new tracks.

If you would buy a set then lets see how many sets would be needed, then it really may be worth getting some manufactured.
Title: Link to French M2
Post by: pmarriott on January 22, 2008, 09:26:28 PM
Check out the link to the website for the French MG-1 with half track tracks what do you all think???????

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/ ... imm304.jpg (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/pmarriott100/imm304.jpg)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/ ... lle202.jpg (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/pmarriott100/chenille202.jpg)

 8)  8)

Maybe hope for getting tracks yet!!!!
Title: Re: Re Tracks
Post by: R. Wilkie on January 23, 2008, 12:40:47 AM
Quote from: "pmarriott"Hi there

 the only other option is did they make this style of track post war???

Has anyone considered contacting BF Goodrich regarding remanufacturing these tracks, may be a limited run of fifty sets. I would have three sets as I have one MG-1 under very long term restoration and know of two others I could restore.If you would buy a set then lets see how many sets would be needed, then it really may be worth getting some manufactured.
Hi
     Yep that is the MG1 that I saw,Glad you could find the photos.Too bad the man won't get back in contact with you..I don't know of any post war production of those style tracks,but then again I'm no expert. IMHO those are from a halftrack. Maybe someone else will weigh in on this one.The best I can tell from the photos everything looks the same on the running gear,so what's the deal here?As I said before my tracks seem to be in fine shape other than wear on the pads themselfs.but I have heard of several people asking about tracks in the past.I had thought that halftrack tracks might be an option here to keep one running if the worse were to happen. Contacting Goodrich sounds like a great idea,but right now my wallet would not stand such an undertaking. Thanks again for posting the pics, I was beginning to think that I had dreamed that.
                                                                         Roger
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on February 08, 2008, 01:43:43 AM
pmarriott,

I've considered contacting BF Goodrich about tracks, but haven't done anything because (1) I didn't have a machine until less than a year ago and (2) the machine I bought has decent tracks on it.  However, I think it would be a worthwhile path to explore if we can get enough people together for a decent production run.  

As I recall, the last production run of halftrack tracks I heard about were selling for (I think) ~$2,500/set.  Pricey.  But money worth spending, in my opinion, since they'll probably last for quite a while with the usage the average restored machine will see.  I am a little cautious about jumping up and down and yelling "I'm in" until I know how much they will set me back, but we'll never know if we don't ask, right?  ;)  The thing is, unless some business (surplus dealer or parts dealer) is willing to order a bunch of sets on spec, we'll need to have our money lined up up front before a manufacturer is going to put a lot through production.  The manufacturer should, however, be able to give an estimated per-set price for various production runs, which would let us know if this is feasible.

Keep in mind that production numbers of the M2s were small, relatively speaking.  Only ~8500 were built, vs. 24000+ M3/M5 light tanks or 40-50,000 halftracks, so there are correspondingly fewer in collector's hands.  Doesn't make the task impossible, but it does mean that anyone organizing new production of tracks will have to make sure their ducks are well lined-up...

On another note, there have been a couple of other forays into this area on this forum.  
One idea for refurbishing the tracks with urethane:  http://www.cletrac.org/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=366 (http://www.cletrac.org/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=366)  This is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it is workable with the continuous band carcass on our machines--at least in a "backyard" kind of operation.  There are some ways around that problem, however, depending on the amount of effort one wanted to put into developing solutions.

And http://www.cletrac.org/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=410 (http://www.cletrac.org/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=410) where a company called North American Molded Products thought they might be able to help out, but no additional communication with the company appears to have taken place.  They might be worth contacting.

Douglas
Title:
Post by: pmarriott on February 08, 2008, 06:52:56 PM
Perhaps when I have a moment, we have a three month old baby boy and zero spare time!!! But when I do get a moment I will contact BF Goodrich to firstly see whether they have any photos of track construction or possibly even the moulds.

A couple of years ago I contactted the company in Israel that manufactured the last batch of 1/2 track tracks, but got no reply. They even list the tracks on there website and give a part number. I enquired whether they were able to built the same tracks, but in a different length, because if so the problem with tracks was solved!!!

I may try contacting them again as even through the tracks would not be exactly the same they would certainly work and with the limitted amount of use would last for years and the build cost would be minimal.

Here is the link

http://www.tgl-sp.com/military_sprocket.htm (http://www.tgl-sp.com/military_sprocket.htm)

Food for thought!!!!!!
Title:
Post by: R. Wilkie on February 09, 2008, 01:18:07 PM
Ol Paint, have you or Paul ever heard of any numbers on how many MG1s are in collectors hands at this time? I know of several other vehicle collectors in my area,but no Cletracs in the bunch and that's with about seven large WW2 airfields,four of which had Bombers.

Roger
Title:
Post by: pmarriott on February 09, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
Hi there,

In answer to your question I know of four fully running MG-1's over here in England. Three in private collections and one at IWM Duxford. Then there is my one that is in need of complete restoration when time allows, two further ones in running condition needing restoration and missing all usual parts, these two are owned by farmers who used to plough with them after the war.

I also know of three hulks which may have some of the parts I need. There are also rumours of at least four further ones in various parts of the UK, unconfirmed.

A collector in Belgium has five in various states of dissrepair. Another five are known to exist in collections in Europe plus one in Norway.

Several also exist in Australia and one in Indonesia that I have heard of.

There must be at least fifty in the US.
Title:
Post by: redlineoryourmine on February 09, 2008, 10:30:55 PM
there is or was a place in Fort Collins Colorado that also made half-track tracks i cannot remember the name of the place but it seems like it was on college st. they may also have some ideas for us.
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on June 22, 2008, 10:44:34 PM
Gee whiz, has it really been (4) months since I last posted??  Time flies, I guess.

I still haven't pulled a tape on my tracks to measure the length--sorry about that.  I did manage to dig up this picture of what I believe are unmodifed halftrack tracks mounted on a M2:
(//http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4923/dsc0155cletracwithhalftna7.jpg)

This was posted on Yesterday's Tractors back in 2004.

Douglas

[Edited for subject/verb mismatch.]
Title:
Post by: R. Wilkie on June 29, 2008, 01:39:39 PM
Wow ,now that's different. Thanks for posting the photo, I also noticed that the front set of idler wheels have been removed.
                                                                              Roger
Title:
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on July 21, 2008, 03:07:50 AM
This is from David Pope:

Blake,
I was going to post these pix but I don't have a hosting site so I'll let you post them on the track question thread. This is a pamphlet someone gave me on commercial tracks that are made in the Phillipines I think. I never contacted the company in British Columbia  (whose business card is on page one with phone numbers) to find out more but I'm sure someone on the forum will.
 
David Pope

(//http://www.cletrac.org/media/pictures/pope/rubber_tracks/tracks1.jpg)


(//http://www.cletrac.org/media/pictures/pope/rubber_tracks/tracks2.jpg)


(//http://www.cletrac.org/media/pictures/pope/rubber_tracks/tracks3.jpg)


(//http://www.cletrac.org/media/pictures/pope/rubber_tracks/tracks4.jpg)
Title: M2 tracks
Post by: do-gmc on October 30, 2008, 07:34:37 PM
I just acquired an M2 is very good condition except that one track has the rubber portion of the track pads worn away.  I happen to work for Michelin Tire who owns BF Goodrich and I will see if I can find any information as to the existence of the old molds and the possibility of producing tracks.  We sold most of our vintage tire molds to Coker Tire about 5 years ago.  Don't know if those molds were included.  I will also see if I can find any information on re-vulcanizing rubber to the metal pad base.
Title: MG-1 tracks
Post by: pmarriott on October 30, 2008, 09:01:26 PM
Hi there

If it was possible to remanufacture these tracks it would be great news as they could be used rather than worrying whether the sixty year old tracks would break!

I certainly would be interestted in at least one set may be more and there would be several others in the UK who would want tracks if it was possible.

If it helps the BF Goodrich part numbers are:

Complete track assembly        74WB14

Just the rubber band               74B14

Rubber track pads                  W-14

If the moulds still exist then it is probably very feasiable to make the tracks with modern materials. If no moulds exist then probably no chance!!!

The track bands are the problem as there are plenty of companies out there who could easily re-rubber the pads.

The other option is to get extended M3 halftrack tracks made. This maybe a more cost effective option.



Look forward to hearing the outcome.
Title: Tracks
Post by: do-gmc on October 31, 2008, 01:10:07 AM
I hope that we can get some where with this.  I don't think the actual rubber molds are the problem.  The problem will be with the metallic portion of the track.  They are constructed from a continuous cable held together with forged steel cross ties.  This is the section that the pad bolts to.  The forging together of the cables will be the extreme cost.  Our operation at work uses a large amount of belting.  I will talk with one of our main suppliers (they have a small specialty operation) to determine their feeling on the feasibility of producing a track.  It may take me several weeks to get some information but I will post it as soon as I know something.
Title:
Post by: pmarriott on October 31, 2008, 10:32:59 AM
Hi there

I agree the steel items may be an issue, what if it is possible to use the old forgings with new steel cables and rubber???

I have a couple of broken tracks at home and over the weekend if time perimits I will cut back the rubber and see whats inside. It may help!!
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on November 01, 2008, 02:56:27 AM
It would be very interesting to find out exactly what the metallic portions of the track look like.  It is possible that BF Goodrich has information in their archives regarding the construction of these tracks.  If you do some surgery on your old tracks & take some pictures, I'd like to see them.

It probably wouldn't be hard to engineer a substitute set of cables and crossbars that could be fabricated & provided to the manufacturer, if necessary.

Douglas
Title:
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on November 01, 2008, 04:07:32 AM
My Gramps said the MG1 tracks had piano wire in them.

Blake
Title: Tracks
Post by: do-gmc on November 02, 2008, 02:46:51 AM
My understanding is that the tracks are constructed of steel cable similar to that used on winches and aircraft control surface cable.  This is the standard construction method for conveyor belting used in the mining industry.  The same cable used in these mining conveyor belting would be more that strong enough for the tracks.  Many of the conveyor belts run sever hundred feet and transport several tons of material.

I will to see what BFG has in the archive departments.  Does anyone know what BFG plant the tracks were made.  Opelika, AL, Tuscaloosa, AL or Fort Wayne, IN?  That will help point me in the right direction.
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on November 02, 2008, 05:22:48 PM
do-gmc,

That's my recollection of the broken tracks I've seen, but I haven't had the chance to examine one up close.  I want to say that the cables were fairly thick, but, frankly, I didn't have the time to examine it up close.

It might be possible to strip old, broken tracks, refurbish the cross-bars, and splice in new sections of cable, but the effectiveness will depend on the condition of the metal and the method of construction.  The crossbars are probably riveted, swaged, or bolted to the cables, but we won't know unless the Goodrich archives turn up something, or someone gets the time to do some surgery on the tracks.  

pmarriott,

If you have a broken track section to work with, liquid nitrogen and a sledgehammer could probably break up the rubber on a section of the track to expose the metal (but not something commonly found in the local hardware store).  I don't know if packing the section in dry ice will chill the rubber enough to make it brittle.  It could always be burned, but only if it's legal & wouldn't offend your neighbors.  Otherwise, it's going to be tough going, I expect.  I've never tried to dissect a tire, much less a set of rubber tracks...

Douglas
Title:
Post by: blkgld on January 25, 2009, 04:12:38 AM
I have a copy of the patent papers made by a Robert Mayne of Akron Ohio, of the rubber impregnated wire and the track.They are in adobe pdf form, and I do not know how to publish them. The cables appear to be 1/4"  wire cable. The cable then runs thru a two piece steel crossbar,with holes molded between them for spacing of the cable.There a 8 individual cables running the length of the track. Plus I have talked ot many companies about making the track. I found one company who could do it for a price. A high price! :roll: I will look tomorrow for all my notes on the tracks. By the way me and buddy on 4 Mg 1's.
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 25, 2009, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: "blkgld"I have a copy of the patent papers made by a Robert Mayne of Akron Ohio, of the rubber impregnated wire and the track.They are in adobe pdf form, and I do not know how to publish them. The cables appear to be 1/4"  wire cable. The cable then runs thru a two piece steel crossbar,with holes molded between them for spacing of the cable.There a 8 individual cables running the length of the track. Plus I have talked ot many companies about making the track. I found one company who could do it for a price. A high price! :roll: I will look tomorrow for all my notes on the tracks. By the way me and buddy on 4 Mg 1's.

I'd like to get a copy of the PDF.  Check your PMs for my e-mail address.  What were they quoting to make the track and did they have a lower price for a larger production run?  

Also, I assume the high price had to do with the need to make the mold.  Which brings us back to the question:  what happened to the original molds?  Maybe I should get my tail in gear and contact BF Goodrich...

Douglas
Title:
Post by: blkgld on January 25, 2009, 03:42:06 PM
I talked to a Brian Carroll,//Carrolltech.com  He said if I would some how get a track to him, he could make the molds and everything. It was a couple of years ago, but the price was around 30,000 to get started.
I also talked to BF Goodrich and they could not even begin to tell me what happened to the molds. I will give Brian a call Monday.
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 25, 2009, 05:06:16 PM
Quote from: "blkgld"I talked to a Brian Carroll,//Carrolltech.com  He said if I would some how get a track to him, he could make the molds and everything. It was a couple of years ago, but the price was around 30,000 to get started.
I also talked to BF Goodrich and they could not even begin to tell me what happened to the molds. I will give Brian a call Monday.

Offhand, that doesn't actually sound too bad, depending on what is, or isn't, included.  For instance, if that's a ROM cost for 10 sets including the non-recurring costs (engineering & tooling), that works out to $3,000 a set.  It'll make a big difference depending on how much of that cost is recurring and what it works out to on a per-set basis.  If we can get enough people together to put their money down, we might get the individual cost down to a reasonable level.  

Thanks for doing some legwork on this--I haven't done anything but think about it, at this point.

Douglas

P.S.  I got the e-mail.
Title: Track patent PDF
Post by: waayfast on January 26, 2009, 05:08:19 AM
BLKGLD
   Sir, I too would like to get a copy of the patent pdf. A few years ago I did some looking into bf goodrich patents and found what I thought was what we are looking for --unfortunately I didnt keep(lost?) the dang material.  :evil:
   I'm hoping that we can come up with a solution to this problem, these are cool machines that have a lot of history and ought to be saved.
  I have pm you with my contact info.
   thanks Jim
Title: Re. Tracks
Post by: pmarriott on January 26, 2009, 09:27:52 PM
Hi there

These guys at Carroltech are the same guys that have just made new M-29 Weasel tracks for customers I believe.

If a set of track bands was around $3000 I would probable have three sets or more depending on final costings. I also know of several other people in the UK who would buy tracks so probably around six to ten sets would be needed in the UK.

I know where there are three other wrecks in the UK and tracks would make them good strter projects.

Did they give you any idea about the cost to rerubber a set of track pads to go with the tracks???

If these guys have managed to do M-29 tracks then they have a very good grounding for MG-1 tracks.

I also would like to see the patent pdf file if someone could email it to me.

I have finally started work on my MG-1 the engine is out and head off, bores are perfect and have been rebored to +20. I need to regrind the valve seats and strip the entire engine for cleaning before putting it back together for a test run later in the year if possible.

I too will need a new ring gear as mine has flat spots, I may try and remove and reverse it and grind a 45 degree on the back. Does anyone know where to get a carburettor and fuel pump rebuilt kit form????

My engine has sat mainly in the vehicle outside from 1953 and after a bit of diesel done the bores turns by hand!!!

Regards

Paul

New tracks would make all our vehicles an investment!!! :D
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 26, 2009, 10:51:12 PM
The patents blkgld sent me can be downloaded by clicking these links:  
Link 1 (//http://www.fm-tesseracted.com/Doug%27s%20Equipment/Technical%20Documents/02107490_1.pdf)
Link 2 (//http://www.fm-tesseracted.com/Doug%27s%20Equipment/Technical%20Documents/02067405_2.pdf)

You guys are lucky with your engines.  My '42 had water, carpet fibers, and gasoline in one cylinder, rust in another, and nicely rusted up tappets....  ;)

Douglas
Title:
Post by: blkgld on January 27, 2009, 01:55:06 AM
They are charging 8000 for a set of Weasel tracks according to the write on the website. I have not called them yet to see how much or how hard to make tracks. I'll keep you posted.


Mark
Title: Re. Tracks
Post by: pmarriott on January 27, 2009, 09:22:10 PM
Hi all

Have tonight been beaving away in the garage on one of my broken tracks. Each track has 24 steel cables in it, 12 on each side. They appear to be 1/4" diameter(will confirm at the weekend when I carry on cutting). I am unable to confirm whether the steel cables are solid or a braided wire rope( to confirm).

Interestingly I thought the steel cables would be permantently clamped to the steel cross members, but it would seem all that clamps these steel cable between the two cast steel plates is the main center bolt that holds on the guide plate and possible the outer bolts that hold the pad on(again will confirm later and put link to some photos).

If these two cast clamping plates could be re-cast at a reasonable cost then I think it is going to be possible to get new track bands made. Looking at the state of mine there would be no point reusing the old ones.

We could use our old track guides as they are removable. If they were worn then a new set is easy to come by as I believe the WWII halftrack uses the same ones(could confirm when I visit my mates halftrack).

The next issue would be track pads. These were a steel plate with bolts passed through and then a rubber pad vulcanized to the surface. Again a new CNC'd plate with welded bolts and new rubbber vulcanized on.

I guess the center bolt is standard and easily sourced for holding the track guide on.

Anyway will post photos etc when I have more info.

Regards

Paul

 8)  8)
Title:
Post by: Ol Paint on January 27, 2009, 10:32:14 PM
The track pads/grousers should be rebuildable if the plate isn't too badly worn, possibly using castable polyurethane.  I think the M3/M5 Stuart guys have had some success rebuilding their track pads this way.  Here's one article:  http://www.robertsarmory.com/track.htm (http://www.robertsarmory.com/track.htm)

I think one of the guys at 14th Armored Re-Creations refurbishes Stuart tank tracks, as well--or they got someone else to do it for them.  I'll e-mail them.

Douglas
Title: Re: Re. Tracks
Post by: blkgld on January 28, 2009, 12:40:34 AM
Quote from: "pmarriott"Hi all

Have tonight been beaving away in the garage on one of my broken tracks. Each track has 24 steel cables in it, 12 on each side. They appear to be 1/4" diameter(will confirm at the weekend when I carry on cutting). I am unable to confirm whether the steel cables are solid or a braided wire rope( to confirm).

Interestingly I thought the steel cables would be permantently clamped to the steel cross members, but it would seem all that clamps these steel cable between the two cast steel plates is the main center bolt that holds on the guide plate and possible the outer bolts that hold the pad on(again will confirm later and put link to some photos).

If these two cast clamping plates could be re-cast at a reasonable cost then I think it is going to be possible to get new track bands made. Looking at the state of mine there would be no point reusing the old ones.

We could use our old track guides as they are removable. If they were worn then a new set is easy to come by as I believe the WWII halftrack uses the same ones(could confirm when I visit my mates halftrack).

The next issue would be track pads. These were a steel plate with bolts passed through and then a rubber pad vulcanized to the surface. Again a new CNC'd plate with welded bolts and new rubbber vulcanized on.

I guess the center bolt is standard and easily sourced for holding the track guide on.

Anyway will post photos etc when I have more info.

Regards

Paul

 8)  8)
The cables are braided then incased in rubber. the cross members are use just to hold the cables in place. I have some pics of a broken track and will post them as soon as I figure out how.

Paul good observation on the guides. By the way halftrack tracks are the exact same,just 64" shorter.
Title:
Post by: blkgld on January 28, 2009, 01:28:36 AM
Here are the pics.
(//http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/583875/20071207/200521.jpg)
(//http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/583875/20071207/200523.jpg)
(//http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/583875/20071207/200525.jpg)
(//http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/583875/20071207/200526.jpg)
Title:
Post by: waayfast on January 28, 2009, 07:38:27 AM
Thanks ol'paint for the link and to paul for the pics---looks as if we might have hope yet for our toys!
   Seeing the broke track laid out reminded me of my Dad driving our MG-1 when I was a young boy(I could not see over the top of the track while on the ground next to the machine!)
   It was winter and as the track pads "spread open" as they rounded the leading roadwheel the snow got pinched in between them as the track "leveled out" once the track contacted the road surface.The result was that the track got tighter and tighter until the machine would NOT go ahead anymore. Imagine the tension!!
  Looking back I can't believe we didn't break one then--- and now 40 years of deterioration later I don't know about anyone else but maybe operating in snow might be avoided--no sense in tempting fate with the old tracks til new can be had.
             Jim
Title: Tracks
Post by: do-gmc on January 28, 2009, 09:01:03 PM
I would also like a copy of the pdf file if you are able to send it.  I am still trying to locate information on the tracks from BFG/Michelin.  I work for them and am currently running into dead ends.  Will update as soon as I know something.
Title: Track guides
Post by: do-gmc on January 28, 2009, 09:03:19 PM
Does anyone have any of the metal guides that run down the center of the track?  I have several that are damaged and need to be replaced on one track.
Title: Re. Tracks
Post by: pmarriott on January 28, 2009, 09:29:04 PM
Hi all

Have just finished taking apart a track cross member will blast the bits tommorrow night to get rid of the rust and then post a few pictures of exactly what is inside a track for all to see.

It is to say the least very basic and with modern methods it should be easy to reproduce 70 year old engineering!!!

Speak to Gary about the guides as they are the same as halftrack ones. Website is www.halftracks.com (http://www.halftracks.com) he is bound to have some.

Anyone know how much a copy of the maintenance manual is from Zimmerman?????

Regards

Paul
 8)
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Post by: Blake Malkamaki on January 28, 2009, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: "waayfast"It was winter and as the track pads "spread open" as they rounded the leading roadwheel the snow got pinched in between them as the track "leveled out" once the track contacted the road surface.The result was that the track got tighter and tighter until the machine would NOT go ahead anymore. Imagine the tension!!
  Looking back I can't believe we didn't break one then--- and now 40 years of deterioration later I don't know about anyone else but maybe operating in snow might be avoided--no sense in tempting fate with the old tracks til new can be had.
             Jim

I think I have pictures somewhere of my grandfather - Howard van Driest - testing MG-1s  in 9-foot deep snow in Presque Isle, Maine.

Blake
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Post by: Ol Paint on January 29, 2009, 12:37:50 AM
do-gmc,

You should be able to download the PDFs of the patents by clicking on the links in my post from Monday at 5:51pm (//http://cletrac.org/newbb/viewtopic.php?p=8339&sid=8f6eeddf0c8a13425003c149fbe748b6#8339).  If clicking directly doesn't work, try right-clicking and "save as."

Paul,

I think Zimmerman charged around $30 or $40 for the maintenance manual, but I don't remember.

Douglas
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Post by: blkgld on January 29, 2009, 12:51:43 AM
The manual I found from Jensales was 56.00. Sorry I still have not contacted Carrolltech yet, will try tomorrow.
Title:
Post by: pmarriott on February 02, 2009, 08:44:18 PM
Dumb question I guess but how do you post pictures in the thread. Do I have to upload photo's first to say Webshots and then link too them????
Title:
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on February 02, 2009, 09:57:02 PM
Quote from: "pmarriott"Dumb question I guess but how do you post pictures in the thread. Do I have to upload photo's first to say Webshots and then link too them????

Yes is the simple answer. Please make sure they are no more than about 800 pixels wide. Then, when you post your reply, use the image button in front of and in back of your link to your photo.

Hope that is a good explanation. Sometimes I have to do it a couple times to get it just right/

Blake
Title: Tracks
Post by: do-gmc on February 03, 2009, 12:50:42 AM
Thanks for posting the links to the drawings.  

I have run into dead ends within BFG.  The tacks were made at the Akron, OH plant which has been long closed.  The story I have is that the technical drawing and molds are no longer in existence.  I will keep checking.

These tracks are very similar in construction to steel cable type conveyor belting.  I have numerous contact with belting suppliers and see what leads I come up with.  Maybe they have molds already in existence that can be used to vulcanize the tracks.
Title: Tracks
Post by: do-gmc on February 04, 2009, 02:20:19 AM
Does anyone have a small section of broken track they would be willing to part with?  Maybe two or three links (or what would be called links on a normal track).  I would like to take detailed measurements and make drawing before approaching some of the belting suppliers that I work with.

Thanks,