Hi
Here's a little mystery. In Murcheson, South Island New Zealand sits the remains of a Cletrac Tractor on public display with a notice on it proclaiming it to have been one of the Cletrac Tractors which Admiral Byrd took to Antartica.
Question are they one in the same?
Matt
These two are not the same. The one with no tracks is a model 80. there could be a chance it could have been with him, I just don't know any history of the expedition.
I'm wondering if he brought more than one Cletrac on the expedition. And I believe there was more than one expedition, so could he have brought a different Cletrac down on a second or third expedition?
I googled Byrd and Cletrac and came up with quite a bit of information. There were several mentions of a Cletrac and much praise was placed upon it as far as reliability and usefulness, but nowhere did it say anything about what model it was or go into technical details.
Perhaps with more searching, one may be able to find the answers. It should be very well documented. I recall my friend John W. Davis talking about it, and it may be on one of my tapes I have.
Blake
hi Bob and Blake
Thanks for your replies.
Now there are two issues here.
If the remains of the Cletrac on display in Murcheson New Zealand are of an Cletrac 80. Given it was used for logging operations in the area (it is heavy forestry country), is it one of the famed 'Blue Ox' units, can you tell from the remains. If somebody was to go and have a look at it, how could they tell, where are the engine numbers on the engine, and the chassis numbers on a Cletrac 80 chassis. I have put another couple of photos of it up.
As to Admiral Byrd's Cletrac he took one down in 1933-34 during his second expedition and only ever one. This is the one in the photo which if my references tells me correctly is a Cletrac 40. Was the cab a factory option on a Cletrac 40?
Cheers
Matt
PS I'll scan some more stuff I have regarding Admiral Bryds Cletrac and put it up for anybody interested.
Hi
Here are two more views of the Byrd Cletrac
Matt
Well those are two different tractors. The one at the top looks like that 40, but the one at the bottom has extended track frames for floatation on the snow.
Blake
Hi Blake
And you are right! much to my embarasement! that is a photo of a Byrd's International TD TracTractor of his third expedition. Sorry.
Here are two more items of interest.
Matt
Quote from: "Bob"These two are not the same. The one with no tracks is a model 80. there could be a chance it could have been with him, I just don't know any history of the expedition.
Loooking at the rear wheels on the Model 80 with no tracks - why does it apear to have gear teeth instead of a sprocket?
John, now your last picture looks more like a Cletrac 80. Look at the sloped hood, and I think they moved the gas tank behind the seat so they had more room for the cab. It looks like it may have extended track frames and, with the cab, it looks to be the same tractor as the one from a distance pulling the bobsleds in the above picture.
If the tractor now in New Zealand is the same one, they must have put those gears on the back to power some kind of skidding donkey.
Blake
In theory the Cletrac in the last photo (cletrac on ice) should be the same tractor as in the first set of photos i.e a Cletrac 40. It's not uncommon to find that vehicles were modified in use in Antartica, after all, most of this was new to the explorers so even if they set a vehicle up a certain way before heading south and thinking that they had solved all the issues they would modify the vehicle later based upon their actual experience. Hence even though the Clectrac 40 in the first photo has a gas tank on the side (which was standard) and another gas tank on the roof of the cab (possibly for some form of pre heater or cabin heater) this may have been taken off at a later date. Is the gas tank on the Cletrac (Cletrac on ice photo) not possibly a 44 gallon drum adapted?
Yes, as to the Cletrac 80 in New Zealand, I think that Blake is correct this unit was simply converted into some form of power unit for a logging unit. Can't rember exactly what they are called, but they did use those winch type systems which would haul the logs through the forest on a wire to a central point, maybe it was the power unit for one of these. Or simply a power unit for a direct style winch (possibly an old steam type one converted using the Cletrac.
Matt
The tractor with the sloping hood is definitely not a Cletrac 40. It's too big and it's not shaped right. Personally, I think they must have had two Cletracs down there. Hopefully more documentation will surface.
Blake
If you get on to google and type in the following
Motorized Surface Transportation in the Antartic by Lieutenant Vernon D Boyd U.S.M.C
you will find a short article by him from the proceedings of the American Philosophical Soviety from April 1945, this article makes mention of the Cletrac
I thought that one picture looked like an International! I thought I was nuts for a miniute! LOL. All the pics I saw of the tractors in Antartica looked like 80s. Ihave seen 15 and 20C Cletracs with the gas tanks moved to the back for some reason. These tractors didn't have cabs either.
Quote from: "matt lombard"Can't rember exactly what they are called, but they did use those winch type systems which would haul the logs through the forest on a wire to a central point
Matt
Were you thinking of a highline? All I've ever heard them called is a "Donkey" or donkey winch, or maybe a yarder
Hi 440roadrunner
Yes thanks for this, it was a highline which I was thinking of.
I've sent Blake a PDF of an article which appeared in the 1935 New Zealand Antartic Journal which was writen by, or with, Pete Demas who was the tractor driver for Admiral Byrd on his second expedition. I hope that Blake as administrator can find a way of putting it up for all those interested to view. It definately talks of a Cletrac 30-40 , given this and the photo of the tractor on the wharf (yes not the Inertnational, sorry about that, that was from his third expedition in 1939), it has to have been this model of cletrac that they took with them.
Thanks again to all, for your interest in this small corner of two large subjects, Antartic Exploration and Cletrac Tractors.
Matt Lombard
Let me give this a try. The resolution is pretty bad, but you can probably read them ok. To upload these, I had to convert them to jpegs.
Blake
[attachment=9:2zj73hee]Antarctic-1.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=8:2zj73hee]Antarctic-2.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=7:2zj73hee]Antarctic-3.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=6:2zj73hee]Antarctic-4.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=5:2zj73hee]Antarctic-5.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=4:2zj73hee]Antarctic-6.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=3:2zj73hee]Antarctic-7.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=2:2zj73hee]Antarctic-8.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=1:2zj73hee]Antarctic-9.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
[attachment=0:2zj73hee]Antarctic-10.jpg[/attachment:2zj73hee]
Hi All
Thanks to Blake for putting up the images of the pages from the New Zealand Antractic Journal. There's not much more I can now add to this debate, execpt to say that it would be interesting to see what corespondence is in the Byrd II Antartic Expedition files at US National Archives in Washington DC. Surely there must have been correspondence between Byrd and Cletrac both before and after the expedition.
Thanks again to all for your interest.
Matt Lombard
South Australia
There is a publication up on Ebay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 388wt_1053 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160374990430&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1388wt_1053) that talks about Byrd's Cletrac or Cletracs used in his expedition.
Here's the picture from Ebay:
[attachment=0:3487lx8c]cletrac_byrd.jpg[/attachment:3487lx8c]
Blake
Hi Blake
Good spotting - so what model of Cletrac is depicted in the article on E bay advertising, looks to me to be the 40 model, thus the same Cletrac that is pictured above (no not the International!) on the wharf awaiting transport to Antartica.
Regards
Matt
I would say that is a 40 in the brochure.