Cletrac.org

so i finally tore into the engine (IXK3) on the hg 31 and found some bad stuff. it spun a rod bearing on #3 and all the rest of the rod bearings are worn. they are the shell type inserts. the mains are babbit style with shims under the caps. they have some wear but are still tight and the crank looks decent. the pistons have wear on the wrist pin bushings and the wrist pins look to have slight play in the small end of the rods. IM not too familiar with these engines and what to be concerned with as far as wear goes, and not at all sure whats acceptable wear on babbit mains. could use a little advice as to what I should really be most concerned with and even more whats available for repair parts.  I have to keep in mind this is just a toy that will never see a day of work as long as I own it. just a show or 2. any and all input would be great.
thanks
Mike

Well now. You can get oversize wrist pins. I don't understand the pin bushings thing. Does this engine still have cast iron pistons? The wrist pin clamped in the rod or is your engine different? do you have a rod forging number?  F-M may still hve rod bearings. Their part number is 1450SB. If not send me a PM type reply. I have a plan B. Did you plastigauge the mains? Also rod bearings can be repoured, but you need to know the cost. My plan B may be cheaper.

the bushings I was refering to are in the pistons, atleast thats what I thought they were bushings, one on each side that the wrist pin runs in.they are still the cast pistons and the rods are clamped on the wrist pins. I have not plastigauged the mains yet, what type of clearance should there be? I know nothing of this style bearing, im used to just replaceing inserts when you have it apart. as for the rod bearings, it has clevite 77 inserts in it, so maybe they have been replaced one already?

Send me a P-M and I will dig up some engine specs for you.

if j.Schwiebert pull every one in to P-M how do the rest of us get info,,,nowonder no one posts here.. I just don't think it right .. sorry john just had to say itt

   kapou

Right now it would be easier just to make some photo copies and mail them.

I have worked on alot of engines, although none have been hercules, this is the most frustrating and discouraging engine so far, its unbelievable how little information is on the internet, and the parts are so far and few between. it really stinks as the tractor its in is just so neat, but its useless without it.

What did you expect? I did have the dates at one time but the last times thos IX engines were made was in the early 1970'. First built in the 1930's They are not like a small block Chevie. I guess I have been around this stuff long enough I would not look on the internet for information or service. But you came here so now you want help. Start in the beginning as what you want to do. Is it apart ? Have youmeasured it up to see what size you need of everything.

Find a old established machine shop out in the suburbs and I'll bet someone in there knows plenty about those engines. They're not that ancient and basic engine technology hasn't changed much. There are parts available. Call these guys Hercules Parts (//http://mandmsurplus.com/)

Mike
if you are having problems finding someone, I used Upper valley machine in White River Jct. Vermont(802-295-5788). The owners name is Will ,he has done a few of them in his day.
I would give him a call.  The one thing I can tell you he is an independent type of person, it will not do you any good to ask him when it will be done I think that just slows him down.[img][img]

In my area many machine shops have shut down .Is this common in other parts of the country??
Walter

These engines will run with a little extra clearence everywhere and alot in many places .I have torn many down and was amazed that they still would run . Have the rod journals turned ,polish the mains and adjust with shims .If you need rod journal dimensions let me know .
Walter

Hello Walter: Good points that you made on the clearances for the IXK motors.  

One thing that might help is to cross reference other applications that utilized the IXK motor, I can think of a couple that might be of use.  Chris Craft Boats, small GE field welders, I think that their was also a bucaneer boat that used the IXA,K's and B's.

Anyone else have a list or cross reference applications for the Hercules IX engines.  Maybe John S. will see this and provide his thoughts.  Good luck on this project.

THe engine is all apart, and I can measure. but  it does me no good, cant find any specs, and theres nothing replaceable in the lower end. the local machine shop doesnt do any babbitt work, thats whats so frustrating, any other engine I have worked on, including my 48 farmall, the crank gets turned and you get new bearings, doesnt work that way with this thing, every bearing on this is worn, everything has "excessive" clearance. too bad a cummins 4bt couldnt fit in there, that would be neat...and as a sidenote actually, One engine I have managed to stay away from due to total dislike is the chevy 350. never owned or wanted one.

If we get all that snow they are talking about I will be stuck here. If I had your e-mail then I could send you a copy. On the bearings: Neither Clevite nor F-M has furnished main bearings for that engine for a long time. Reason: They did not make the thrust bearing to start with and the company that did was sold and the tooling for the thrust was junked. How many shims do you have left? They can be repoured.  Pistons: Egge did make them. Find yourself a good set of IXB pistons and have the block bored to fit the IXB pistons. You need to get in contact with Jerry Biro. He is North America's largest dealer for obsolete Hercules parts and also has some Cletracs in his collection.

Quote from: "mikeinnh"One engine I have managed to stay away from due to total dislike is the chevy 350. never owned or wanted one.

   ????

If you do decide to bore it out to an IXB, I have a set of std.  pistons that I took out of my OC-3 motor. If it will help you put the original motor in your HG-31 you can have them.I am not sure if there is a good argument for not re-using old pistons but, maybe some of the others can give us their opinion.
 the chevy 350  was a good motor but,I have always prefered the 327

so the Ixk can be bored to the Ixb size with no problems? there is plenty of cylinder for that? thats a good upgrade. are the pistons you have in usable shape? that sounds like a decent route to go. are the wrist pins the same? mine are quite worn.  as far as the 350 goes, alot of people I knew growing up had them and just got sick of hearing about it, they might be good engines, just got tired of hearing how good they were.

Get the 3.250 IXB pistons. even if they are worn some get the machine shop to bore the block to properly fit the pistons. I had a dealer friend who did that as a standard overhaul. How hard are you going to work the tractor once it is done? Maybe your IXK engine has one as a few late ones did but back in the days when they were doing them and people were using them on long days to farm with you had to add a water pump. If those pins are worn I also have a plan B for that.

I have 2 sets of pistons, the one that I have handy has a .004 wear on the wrist pin where it rides in the piston but where the rod rides it shows only .001. It may take me a few days to put my hands on the other set. I would like to have some other people weigh in on this, to see if that is too much. I believe that John is the one that suggested boring it out , I think they are the same casting.

gazer, you pistons sould like the way to go, thanks for the offer, where are you in NH? not sure what is acceptable wear is on the wrist pins and bushings is, John, whats your plan B on worn pins?

Mike

Your wrist pin should be clamped in the rod correct? Now without me looking I had to do this once on an engine with the same problem. There are (were) oversize pins available with almost the same dimensions except they did not have the little notch cut in them. This can be ground into the pin. I just checked my P-M box last night  and I see I had 5 messages in there. Will take care of that stuff over the weekend. I will dig up a spec sheet as well for the IXB. Maybe Blake can alter it and we can add it to the bulletins  I had posted. Got an appointment tomorrow and need to move some snow first today. Sorry Bob.

Mike
I have found the other pistons. I have 2 sets of std and 1 set of .02 over. After looking them over both sets of std are about the same. The wear on the wrist pins vary per cylinder I have a couple with only .002 wear.
there are a couple other machine shops that you can try.
1) Sanels in Conord NH , they have done some Toyota heads for me,but I feel they are capable.
2) Messer performance engines on Clinton st in Springfield Vt. He has done an IXB-3 for me.
And John the wrist pins are clamped to the  rod, I didn't have the  rods with the first set of pistons
Mike

finally back in work mode and trying to get things together with this engine. were the later ixk-3 engine much different from the early ones? picked up a newer block (not sure what year) and was comparing, it uses bearing shells on the mains, and the bearing caps look bigger, seems like the oil pump from the older engine just barely fits on the newer block. are there any other differences that anyone else can see? it seems also to have the top outlet for the waterpump, which i wont need. of course there is no id plate so cant tell what the engine nembers are, it does have the ixk-3 stamped in the top tho.

Mike, The casting date should be on the right side of the block, front of center , just above oil pan. That's pretty much the differences according to my research.  These Engines were also used in B. F. Avery model A tractors, which I'm trying to redo a 1948 model with an 1xb-3.  Sam

thats good news, i will check those numbers tonight and see what they are.thanks

Sam
I do still have the .02 over pistons, I don't think that I will need them. send me an e-mail at gazer1960@yahoo.com and we can discuss it. I will check that email more often.
Mike

How have you made out?
Do you have the engine running?

Its not running yet, have been working on other areas of the machine that needed attention while i save up the money to go further with the engine, have most of the parts tho to get it together and a plan to do it, so hopefully not too long.