I was wondering if anyone can tell me the external differences between the H and W models? Is it possible to tell the two models apart from a photo?
Did all H's have the top track idler? Does the front of the chassis members slope on some H's and not others? Did some H's have the Cletrac name cast into the radiator top, or was this just a feature of the W's?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
David
My knowledge is somewhat limited on the H and Ws. From what I know, All Hs had the top track wheel. Very very slim the very last didn't but I think they did. The early Hs had a tin shroud around the radiator, and the latter ones had the cast iron ones with Cletrac cast into them. I'm not sure about the frames sloping, but if you do a search for Duroe auction on this site I think you might find some pics to compare. I have some of them myself and will load them up for your viewing pleasure and informational purposes.
Other than those few things, I think they were basically identical.
Bob
If you go to http://cletrac.org/pages/model/pic-H.html (http://cletrac.org/pages/model/pic-H.html) you will see both early and late Cletrac H tractors. The earlier ones had the brass radiator with sheet metal over the top tank, whereas the later ones had a cast iron tank with the word "Cleveland" cast in. The "Cletrac" trademark did not come out until 1918.
I believe all the H's had an upper track wheel, but I have learned that nothing is set in stone.
If you look at a model H, it will have "Model M" stamped on the plate on the Weidley engine. At some point I believe the W's switched to a Cletrac engine. But, from what I have been told, they are identical anyway. Maybe there are some small differences. I believe the 20K used the same engine as the W.
If Landis or Harold is reading these posts, maybe they could add some more detail on these early tractors. If someone has a set of Oliver Heritage magazines, they could check with Landis' Cletrac stories and see what the details are on the R, H, and W's.
Blake
Thank you for your help. I don't know what to make of the chassis differences, but I notice that the one in the Duroe sale had the vertical rather than sloping chassis ends.
I think the "Cleveland" name was painted on the top tank rather than cast in, as quite a few H's in preservation have a bare tank now.
All the best
David
I think if I remember correct the one was an orchard tractor hence the pointed chassis ends? I'll have to look at my sheet and pics to know for sure.
Hi David
IÃ,´ll try to fill in some gaps here:
H has a different type of lower track frame guard(angeled and in two pieces). W has a straight one piece.
H has an upper track roller on each side.
Early H has a tin shrouded radiator, later has cast iron with no name cast in to it. Finaly they added "Cletrac", donÃ,´t know when.
Angeled vs. straight cut frame was altered on serial number 10000. This indicates that later H has a straight cut frame.
Early H had a different type of tracks, looks like the tracks on model R.
H was dark green with red undercarriages. W were battleship grey.
The serial number tag says Cleveland on the early ones and Cletrac on the later tags, donÃ,´t know when the change was made.
Later W has a Cletrac engine(first I wrote H but of course it is the W that had the engine change after Weidley got out of business).
Please correct me if anything is wrong.
Erik
Erik sounds very thorough! If its not true you coulda fooled me! LOL
Like I said, my knowledge of the H and Ws is limited, but know enough to get into trouble.
Thanks
Bob
Hi Erik
Thank you very much for all of your help with this! Just a couple of questions:
- Where did you find the information about the later H's having the radiator with the cast "Cletrac" name?
- I had never heard that the Model H had the Cletrac engine; I thought this was the later W's?
All the best
David
According to my sheet: http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/specs/spec_R_H_W.jpg (http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/specs/spec_R_H_W.jpg) the H was only made in the years 1917, 1918, and 1919 and it appears there is no overlap in the serial numbers of the R, H or W. Plus, the term "Cletrac" did not come about until sometime in 1918, so the early H's could not have used it. It's possible the later ones could have, though I have never seen one. I do know some of the late H's had "Cleveland" cast into their radiators.
Thanks Blake. Would you have any photos of H's with the cast "Cleveland" name that you could post?
All the best
David
Quote from: "David Parfitt"Thanks Blake. Would you have any photos of H's with the cast "Cleveland" name that you could post?
All the best
David
David, there are some in the link I posted above. Here's one in particular - http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/W_mahoney.jpg (http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/W_mahoney.jpg) . Please note that the caption says W, but it was mis-identified when it was first sent to me. It is really an H.
Blake
Hi David
Sorry I mislead you about the Cletrac engine. Of course the later W had the Cletrac engine, sometimes my mind and fingers donÃ,´t match. I have now corrected it in my post also.
"Where did you find the information about the later H's having the radiator with the cast "Cletrac" name?", let me get back to you about this. I have to look in my archive.
Regards
Erik
Quote from: "Blake"Quote from: "David Parfitt"Thanks Blake. Would you have any photos of H's with the cast "Cleveland" name that you could post?
All the best
David
David, there are some in the link I posted above. Here's one in particular - http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/W_mahoney.jpg (http://cletrac.org/media/pictures/W_mahoney.jpg) . Please note that the caption says W, but it was mis-identified when it was first sent to me. It is really an H.
Blake
Hi Blake
That lettering looks painted on rather than cast in.
By the way, I found the following information on the differences between the H and W from "Motor Age" 1920:
The new model will be painted a dark grey. The size of the engine has been increased from 3Ã,¾ in. bore to 4 in. bore, the stroke remaining the same. The track supporting roller has been eliminated and the dust shield has been redesigned to afford the lower track wheels better protection from dust and mud. The company's water air-cleaner has been added as standard equipment. The seat has been redesigned with the idea of making it more comfortable and there are some changes in the footboard and the steering wheel. Some changes have been made in the transmission and the new model is using large size ball bearings on the pinion end of the drive shaft. Improvements also have been made looking to the dustproofing of the lower track and rear sprocket.All the best
David
David, This is great information!
The radiator lettering might have to do with the change of name on the ID tag. Cleveland Tractor co. to Cletrac. The name "Tank Type" was used in the begining on some of the manuals. Also "12" something was used, anyone got more info on this?
Once again let me get back to you when I'm back from vacation.
My Cletrac F arrived from the States a few days ago. It'a an early example with serial no under 400. You can find picture on www.mydozers.com (http://www.mydozers.com)
Regards
Erik
Erik I looked thru you crawler pics. You have quite a few nice ones! I just wish I could read the captions under the pics.
Quote from: "erik"Also "12" something was used, anyone got more info on this?
I think they were rated as a 12-20. That means 12 drawbar horsepower and 20 belt horsepower.
Thanks Bob, my pictures are a mix of "when found" and "when home". Will go through the pictures again when I have them gathered in the same spot. Some are still not retreived or gathered at a friends place waiting for transportation.
One thing has struck me since this post started, isnÃ,´t the Cletrac H really a Cleveland H? Would be interesting to know the youngest H or W with "Cletrac" on the ID tag.
I canÃ,´t find any good evidence for my earlier saying that later H has "Cletrac" cast into the radiator. This can have something to do with the change from Cleveland Tractor co to Cletrac on the ID tag
Regards
Erik