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I'm from picton ontario. im 19 and me and my dad just baught a bd with a heil blade. we got it for a reasonable price saving it from scrap. we got it home and checked the govener and injection pump for oil and set up a jerry can cause the tank was pretty rotton (i got it all brazed up now). hooked a chain on it and got it to fire up. but it doesent run very well. the clutch is stuck engaged (any help on that would be cool) i just bumped it out of gear when it started. the oil in the sump we changed but it quickly became murky while it was running (blown head gasket i think anyone know where i can get one?) i tried pulling it and leaving it in gear but it doesent have the power to move itself. (also a blown head gasket i think). i tried cracking a couple injecters while running and it improved a little. but i think im gonna do the head gasket and see what that does. can you set injecters at home or is that a diesel shop thing. i live on a farm 2000 sheep lots of machinery i know my stuff just not injecters. the dozer has a herc in it i beleive djxc right? if any body knows of a head gasket that would be awsome. problably gonna get a couple of parts and go at it this winter but i would like to locate some parts berfore. oh and the undercarriage is like new sprockets got lots of meat rollers in the tracks have very little wear

Hi Jonathan , Welcome to the forum .If you look on the cletrc.org home page click on to parts ,it gives a list of supplyers .Zimmermanns seem to be the one most talked about on here ,so their  a good starting point..Good luck with your restoration and hopefully we will be able to see photos as you go along . Ian .

thanks for the reply ill give them a call on monday. i tried to put some piocs on but there too big so ill figure it out and get some pics up. i have another question the right track seems not to line up with the sprocket it like the timing is out if that makes sense. the track does look too tight whether thats the problem, the sprocket walks out of the track and then bangs back in

The head gasket is probably fine. They are made from solid copper. When you pull it apart, and check for cracks and ect. take the gasket, and heat it in an oven or fire (must be at least 900 degrees) so it turns red. That anneals it and makes it soft again so it will form to the head better. It calls for some kind of gasket sealer for it too. I'm just working on my FDE now, had oil/water coming out exhaust, bubbles and oil in radiator. Everything lookes OK inside and gaskets are good. Will anneal them and reuse. I'm pretty sure I have a new and possibly a used gasket for your BD (DJXC), also a head and other engine parts if you need them.

For your power issue, just check the timing. A couple degrees really make a big difference. My OC12 didn't run good, smoked, and didn't have good power. Checked timing, couple degrees off, made a big difference.

Stuck clutch... Get it running and hook it to something and yank on it a bit with the clutch in. Slim chance it will do it, but worth trying. Could ruin stuff inside just the same. Clutch could be spanked too, thats why it won't release. Probably be best if you take it out and find the problem. I've got a real nice fuel tank for it too if you need one.

Sounds if maybe the pins and bushings are worn enough that the sprocket climbes the pin, or the track frame is not shouldered up to the inside. Possibly bent dead axel? (trackframe pivot shaft)

Bob

Don't jump to quick conclusions (or guesses) on these engines until they have been warmed up and run a while. Make sure the fuel supply is good. Before pulling the head, I would rig up a compression tester and check that.

Some of these engines (mine included) stumble and miss when they are cold or at idle, but pick right up and have lots of power as soon as the governor opens up.

Blake

what should i check if theres water in the oil? i thought it was the head gasket but if there solid copper that doesent make much sense. ill try letting it run for a while and see what happens. i have the exhaust manifold off because when it was taken to the scrap yard the pipe got knocked and broke the manifold. nothing a little brazing cant fix. is it really important not to put a detergent type oil in the govener and inj.pump. i had a look at the right track and it looks way to tight so im gonna try to loosen it a bit i took the inspection plate off it and cant seem to get a wrench in there to turn it is there a special tool and what size is the nut. thanks for the help this is the first time ive worked on a dozer or a diesel this old. i have a 1947 oliver 60 standard that i got running before i got this but im a mechanical guy so the body and paint leave somethin to be desired oh well driving them is the fun part looks are second.

i have another question about the oil filter are both sides the same. do i clean both or are they different some how

The oil filters should be brass screen type. Clean them in a clean parts washer, gas ect. Clean both.

There is a chance that the head could be re torqued, and fix the problem, but if its not getting compression in the radiator, I don't think it should go into the oil. By the same token My FDE had oil and compression in the rad. Didn't see a cracked head, but is possible. They are a dry sleeve, so no leaky liners. Still could need the gasket annealed and re torqued. Like I said, found no real or major problems with my FDE heads, but it wasn't good.

I talked to our oil salesman and he said the non det. actually had some detergent in it, just not as much. Don't think it would really hurt anything, will just clean it out.

The actual track wrenck looks kinda like the box end of a wrench with a slot cut in it to slip over the adjuster screw. Feel very luck if you do get it to turn.

Your injector question I missed it the first round. I have a rig setup at my shop so I can check and set the pressure on my own. Has a gauge and basically the pump off a bottle jack with a resivour. Pretty simple to do yourself. Saves alot of cash to at least check them before you send them out. They are easy to take apart and clean/inspect too.

Bob

im gonna get it going in a couple days (after i weld up the manifold) and when i do i will let run for a while to warm up then retorque the head. my starter turns when powered just to slow it doesent make any horrible noises just slow now it may have been the cables i was using to jump it but i dont know are these pretty simple or is it best to send them away. i resealed the primer and found a little water so i primed the system with good clean fuel gonna see if it runs a bit better. i took one of the injecters off just to see what it was like it was fairly clean no sludge or big chunks what should i be looking for and or cleaning when i take them apart. thanks for the replys im just following my nose for most of this so any help is greatly appreciated. to all who contributed to the building of this site congrats it definetly helps me with my project.

The starters are fairly simple. Really should have a decent battery and good cables. Injectors, looking for basically what you would with a carb.

alright, im gonna put my welded exhaust manifold bach on and give it a pull with no water in the fuel system see if it runs better. be back with a report tonight.

well i got it to move under its own power tonight. but it was all it could do so i let it run and cracked some injecters and 3 are good 2 are not and one i cant get to. i think im gonna pull the two injecters and give them a cleaning. while it was idleing it was running fairly well for 10 min and then gradually lost power until it died even a little shot of ether couldent bring her back so i pulled it again and it ran as i inspected it for about another 10 min and then gradually lost power and died it started to rain so i called it quits for now. could this be a big problem or maybe just the filter above the pump not working right. i might try bypassing it next time any other thoughts.

Sounds fuel related. Check the fuel tank and make sure that fuel is always flowing to the filters and pump. I ran across this years ago on a Continental gas engine. it would run allright for a few minutes, then slow down and quit.  While checking the fuel supply, I noticed that there was trash in the tank that was floating around and closing off the fuel line. I removed the tank, drained it and cleaned out the garbage. Ran fine after that. Also, is the fuel tank vented by the fuel tank cap? If it is supposed to be vented and the vent is plugged, it will only run for a little while and then quit. This creates a vacumn in the tank and won't allow fuel to flow.

There is supposed to be a filter up on the fire wall also. My friend told me his BD wouldn't bleed the air out unless the tank was almost full because the firewall filter is so high. My BD runs similar to what you describe, but for 30 mins or so. Usually it won't restart until a bit longer. I have yet to check anything on it, but am assuming its just the filters.

i have the one on the fire wall bypassed because i have the tank off filling holes. so im just using the one filter and a jerry can is the replacable filter easy to get or something to plumb in or do i have to rework it completly

The secondary filter is avalible from NAPA or Wix, Don't know the number off hand. The One on the fire wall is a cloth supposed to be rinsed one, but most are so deteriated they just fall apart, if they haven't already. I converted mine to a modern style spin on, holder and filter. Another one I made an adapter for the inside and found a modern paper cartridge that worked good.

well since i was running clean fuel out of a jerry can i bypassed all filters and went straight from the can to the primer to the pump. i got her going and starteed cracking injecters again and this time got 4 out of 6 going and it sounded pretty good. this time it ran for maybe 10 min full throttle while i was checking things over and it seems to very slowly and gradually comes under load uintil it finally dies. would sucking air through the primer do this because it works but gets diesel everywhere. is this problem air in fuel or could it be a weak injection pump or something else major. i cleaned the oil filters before i started it and thay havent been changes since the build date or so it seemed they were so full of sludge it was crazy nothing a parts washer cant handle though. if i were to pass the project onto more capable/restoring hands would there be some interest just putting it out there thanks again great site.

It sounds like a fuel problem to me. The primary pump could be not delivering the fuel like its supposed to, or letting air get into the system.

It is getting oil circulation isn't it? I would think it woulda tossed a rod by now but could it be a main? Doubtful, but...

im thinkin fuel because a sniff of either will keep it runnin i have to properly seal the primer because it problably sucking air through. i cleaned the oil filter and using the bleed screw filled the filter till it squirted out so the pumps working. just a curious question but how do you know if the govener is working. also one of the injecters gets fuel but it flows when cracked not spray. is that a fixable thing delivery valve? plugged line? when these motors do run right can they actually push dirt or do you have to be kinda ginger with them.

how do i check timing. i have changed the timing but that was on my cummins and i bumped from a known factory setting. how do i find the right spot or is it just trial and error also how do i do it on my truck the pump was turned?

Its a little difficult to explain, but here it goes: This is for the inline pump. Will be a slip coupling.

Roll up on #1 (front cylinder toward rad.)
Roll backwards to the degree mark on flywheel, Probably 25 ish BTDC I'm guessing
Take #1 injection line off, and take the plunger out. Will come out top, be careful to have everything clean and don't loose spring.
Put top on plunger, leaving insides removed.
Have pump coupling loosened so you can turn by hand.
Supply fuel to pump and keep it flowing, by hand pump or gravity.
Bring pump to where you know its BTDC, fuel should be flowing freely.
Turn until fuel just stops, try it a couple times until its perfect.
Tighten, and put it all back together.
If done properly will be timed perfectly.

I've never timed a rotary, can't help you there.

It sounds more difficult than it actually is. I tuned my AD with the DOOC by ear, before I knew to do it this way.

I've never ran a BD bulldozing much, but what little I've done they seem to do decent. If they are anything like my AD power for size, its very impressive really.

As for the governor, I'd thing if you had the linkage unhooked it would want to pull out of your hand when it came into a load, I'm pretty sure of this on a gasser, but not familiar with the diesels. All mine just work.

Thi injection line just leaking might indicate a stuck, or sticky plunger. Take the cover off the side of the pump and you can see if there are any sticking, or stuck. If they are very gently pry them down, and just be sure everything is very clean. A little diesel conditioner wouldn't hurt it. Even lace it real hard for a while, won't hurt it.

Bob and everyone else. Some BD crawlers were timed to #6 cylinder instead of number one. We had one customer that had a BD that was timed that way. If it rains this weekend I will look. Sitting on the seat is your injection pump on the right side or the left side of the engine.

sitting on the machine its on your left. thanks bob for the "how to" i will do that next time i get an afternoon to tinker.

Thats news to me. From my understanding all Hercs were from the radiator... I've got a couple DJX books will investigate also.

Alright, according to my book John is right. It is still numbered with #1 as the front toward radiator. The Bosch pump is timed to number 6 cylinder. The Roosa Master pump is timed from number one. Timing is 24 degrees BTDC industrial and 26 degrees BTDC automotive. The Roosa Master pump is 18 degrees BTDC.

So I was dang close with my timing guess!

well i havent been able to tinker on the old girl in a while. but i was thinking and if the clutch is pooched where can i get another one. also how is the timing physically set on these motors do i disconnect the coupling then turn the injection pump any help would be greatly appreciated. i got it running a while back with no hood on it and the rad tilted back and the fan took a swipe at it i might be ablr to gob it up but is there anybody who has one pensylvania way my dad is headen that way soon. thanks also can i take the inspection plate off the side of the inj. pump with it running to see if a plunger is stuck. im sure i have more questions but thats all for now.

Good to hear from you again John!

There is a really good chance I've got all the parts you need to fix that thing up. I've got a good (I think will test) radiator, clutch, and more than likely anything else you may need. I'm in NW Pa area code 16701, prices very reasonable too. Alot of the parts are already pulled. PM me for contact info

You could probaly rock the engine with a bar or wrench of sort, with the plunger out, and by the timing marks to see it you were even in the ball park. Then disconnect the pump to adjust. I hope I answered your question, if not feel free to ask and I'll see what we can do.

Bob

Oh and I can't think of any reason that you couldn't check for stuck plungers while the engine is running, just be very very careful not to get any dirt inside. It should be "surgically" clean.

If you want an instruction, repair manual for it, I've got an extra.

Bob

where are the timing marks. i gotthe tranny stuck while trying to pull it yesterday i was pulling it in 3rd and when it fired i bumped it out of third but it dident come out of thirdf but the shifter felt out of third. now all i have is third and then one other position that just locks up the tracks. i am on the verge of selling it to my neighber to display in front of his shop but i kinda like the old girl i would like it alotm more if it would play ball but persistance is key. i am interested in the rad and clutch bob ill pm ya. thanks guys it would have been parked a while ago if not for your tech support.

Forgot to mention in the PM. The shifter is probably worn. I've got an extra you can have with the other parts.

Timing marks are on the flywheel, probably injection pump side, under a pipe plug in the engine/bellhousing adapter.

I feel your pain, as we all do I'm sure. Don't give up!

well. I took the shifter out and put it back into neutral worked out pretty good. then i decided to pull the head because i had the afternoon holy 40 head bolts  :lol: im starting to see maby a working dozer for spring time.

You can anneal it with a map gas torch, but after I talked with a friend and discussed it with him, think heating it in a fire, on a grate would be best. It would be more even of a heat. I'm thinking it needs to be heated to 900 degrees for a little bit, just so its heated thru. 160 lbs sounds right for the headbolts. I'll have to check the valve adjustment. It might not hurt to take the head to an engine shop and just have it checked for cracks. Probably if it were cracked it would be between the valves. You can wire brush it good and possibly see it. If it were ran with no water for long it might crack, It wasn't super common, but happened from time to time. The water in the valve cover could possibly have just been condensation. After you get it running again, use it for a week or two and retorque the head. Just tighten the rockers down until they are tight. Don't believe there is any specific torque for them.

Good luck
Bob

Quote from: "jonathanfleguel"can you anneal the gasket with a torch or find a machine shop with an oven to suit? im gonna anneal it and then put it back together and adjust the valves they were a ways out then im gonna set the timing on the injection pump then see where im at.

If you want to anneal a copper gasket, it's just the opposite of annealing steel. Steel you heat and let cool slowly. Copper you heat and cool it quickly to soften it.

Blake

well i guess im gonna get an old grate and see if i can anneal that gasket. i think im gonna clean the haed off real good and have a look with a good light and see if i can find any cracks if not i think im gonna stick it back on with an annealed gasket and set my injection timing get her running and see if i still get the water in the oil, if its still dumping water in i might be down to see you bob a little sooner

well i annealed that gasket tonight turns out my fire box is big enough so i got a grate and stuck it inthere for a while then quenched it. just got to get the flake from the fire off. then put the head back on. i took the side of the injection pump off and all the plungers moved freely. i took the seat off because im gonna rig up a seat that i can actually sit in till i get an original (thanks bob). when i had the seat off i took the inspection plates off the rear end to take a look at the rear end and i saw that the left brake is not riding on the drum center the drum is walked out or the brake is walked in. which makes sense because its a littler harder to convice it to turn left. any ideas. whats the best oil for the rear end im gonna drain it it looks a little murky. filling the rear end fills the finals and the tranny right there all the same to what level do i fill it. tomorrow i think its gonna rain so im gonna put the head on and set the timing and see if i got a new machine or what :?:

The last one I put together, I didn't use anything on. Maybe a little grease to keep it from sticking. Be sure to tighten the head from the inside out.

Could be a pin partially out of the brake band? Never ran into anything like that yet. 50 wt engine oil is the best for the rearend. Wolfshead, and Emblem make it, possibly others. Do not use regular hypoid gear oil. It will not steer right. There has been other discussions of this on here. Do a search and I'm sure you will find more info. There are about 4 drain plugs under the tractor. 1 for the tranny, 1 for the diff. and one for each final. Fill from the top, and let it run out of the holes on the back of the finals. It is then completely full. Thinking around 8 gallons. The rest can be used for trackwheel oil.

Hope all goes well

Bob

well igot the head all back on took me a while to get it to go had to bleed each injector i also got a good battery and cables turns out the starter works good so i got it to go andwhen it was first started the throttle response was good and it sounded to be making good power couldent move it because of the clutch, usually i pull start it but i was by my self. it seemed to get really hot kinda quick but the rad was full and the in and out hoses felt equally hot so it is ciculating. any ideas? also once it warms up the throttle takes a long time to respond. could this be something tight in the bottom end. i hope not

The hoses shouldn't be equally hot...Bottom should be slightly cooler than top. If the water in the rad is low, just above the tubes, you should be able to see the water circulating good. If not there must be a blockage somewhere. Possibly a rad flush. As long as its not boiling it should be fine. My AD runs very warm after working, but not too hot.

I think its hard to believe, but still sounds like air, or the governor is messed up. We have an old dump truck with a cummins and it runs very weird if it gets air into the system. Throttle response very slow.

Bob