I am working on rebuilding my 1940 HG with an Anderson blade. The major problem is the engine. It has an IXA-3 that the Babbited main and rod bearings are shot. Now, here are my choices; 1. Ship the motor out of state and have the bearings rebabbited. 2. Buy new replacement rods, mains, bearings, and machine the block. 3. Replace the engine. Now, let me explain that I am not looking to make this a show piece. I want to use it for many projects such as clearing brush, leveling dirt, mucking out the barn, log skidding, ect. My dilemma is pouring more money into the engine than the machine is worth. Also I noticed that when I first got the machine it seemed underpowered using it as a dozer with that engine.
Now, I love restoring old things to like new condition, however I am not a purist by any means. I have been looking for donor motors and I think I have might have found a solution. A 1940's Farmall H engine seems to be a great candidate. With little modification I can increase Hp from 18-20 to 26-28 and I have the opportunity to purchase one in good running condition for 25% of the cost of rebuilding my current engine.
I welcome all opinions, suggestions, and thoughts you may have. Thanks again.
Cpl,
Depending on the extent of the modifications, I would lean toward an engine swap. Something to look forward to when you are done.
Rebuilding what you have may not give you the expected result.
Can you shed some light on the extent of modifications required; frame, clutch, propeller shaft matchup, hydraulic pump, etc;? Also will the engine swap provide any of the reported benefits of an auxillary transmission? If so, I would definitely go for it.
Replacement parts for the Hercules engine look pricy compared to the availability of the H.
Sounds like a great project, please post the build pics.
Jethrow
As far as the extent of modifications go, I have not yet compared the frame dimensions but the engines are quite similar in length and width. The big noticeable difference is the total height due to the overhead valves instead of the flat head and the deep sump of the oil pan. Should be able to fab up some motor mounts without too much frame modifications.
The guy I am dealing with uses several H motors to drive large trash pumps with drive shafts. He has fabricated bell housings,output shafts, and yokes in order to do this.
The clutch placement on his bell housing is just about the correct spot to hook up the the original HG pedal and linkage.
As for the Hydraulic pump, that is a clear advantage over the HG engine. The H's pump is mounted in line and driven by the distributor gear (sandwiched between the front cover and the distributor).
Not sure if I want to hassle with the aux transmission. I will have to see how much room I have to work with once the motor is in.
If the hydraulic pump on the H engine is anything like the one on my Super M Farmall, it won't be large enough or fast enough to run a dozer or loader. They're pretty slow pumps.
If you are going through this much work, I would definitely consider the auxiliary transmission. The engine change alone is not going to make the tractor into a great excavating machine as it is geared too high.
There is a guy on here who put a Mercedes diesel in an HG. Not sure what progress he has made, but he did have it for sale.
Blake
Quote from: Cplwill on December 28, 2010, 07:33:28 AM
I am working on rebuilding my 1940 HG with an Anderson blade. The major problem is the engine. It has an IXA-3 that the Babbited main and rod bearings are shot. Now, here are my choices; 1. Ship the motor out of state and have the bearings rebabbited. 2. Buy new replacement rods, mains, bearings, and machine the block. 3. Replace the engine. Now, let me explain that I am not looking to make this a show piece. I want to use it for many projects such as clearing brush, leveling dirt, mucking out the barn, log skidding, ect. My dilemma is pouring more money into the engine than the machine is worth. Also I noticed that when I first got the machine it seemed underpowered using it as a dozer with that engine.
Now, I love restoring old things to like new condition, however I am not a purist by any means. I have been looking for donor motors and I think I have might have found a solution. A 1940's Farmall H engine seems to be a great candidate. With little modification I can increase Hp from 18-20 to 26-28 and I have the opportunity to purchase one in good running condition for 25% of the cost of rebuilding my current engine.
I welcome all opinions, suggestions, and thoughts you may have. Thanks again.
Hi Cplwill , If you look down this page a bit ,You will see 440roadrunners Thread . Have a read to see what he did .Ian .
check out the dallas craigslist. search under CLETRAC
fellow selling a 1950 OC motor in tyler, TX. supposed to be in running shape... 400 bucks. not sure how far away from Dallas, TX you live, but its an option to find and purchase the later HG/OC motors.. find a good used one and just drop it in. should be a cheaper route for you.
good luck.
Thanks for the responses.
Da Choppa, the listing for that is gone. 400 is a good price, but with no guarantee who knows what it needs, plus shipping from Texas to NY would be costly.
Ian, I have seen what 440roadrunner did for his and believe me I have thought about it. I have a 94 hard body Nissan with a 4 cylinder. The thing is, I want to keep it as simple as I can. That's why I want to go with a older tractor engine instead of an automotive one, much less work and modifications.
I am definitely leaning to the Farmall H engine for its similar size, simple design, and parts availability. If the built in hydraulic pump is not strong or fast enough I will use it as a aux pump, and reinstall the original front mount pump.
I am going over there to take some measurements of the frame, motor, and mounts sometime this week to see what I have to work with. I will post my results.
Thanks again.
one last option to consider: An early flat fender jeep and tranny. the early civilain 4 cylinder flat heads and T-90 transmissions are a small package as well.
I know the T-90 was coupled to the transfer case in the 4x4 jeeps, but there are also two wheel drive vehicles without the attached transfer case. Look to the older flat fender postal jeeps, panel and delivey wagons with the flat head 4 cylinder for the 2x4 configuration... besides that option, there may be a way to "divorce" the tranny from the transfer in a 4x4 setup and seal the back end up where the transfer attached. Dont know, just assuming some stuff and offering ideas.
Again, these engine/transmission combo's are pretty compact, simple and easy to work on..... and readily avaialbe. A scan thru the Dallas craigslist near me shows numerous ads selling older jeeps and parts.
does anyone know how much it will cost to have the block bored out? Will the added horse power of the Farmall motor be a problem with the HG frame? I have heard that the switch from the IXK to the bigger IXB was a problem.
I spoke with a local machine shop, and to get the block and mains machined to take the replacement parts would run about $200 - $300. That's after I get the new parts so they can match them up during machining. The replacement parts, and rebuild kit will run around $750 - $1000.
HP really has nothing to do with frame twisting, that's torque and rpm. The increase in 8-10 HP is only an increase of 35-45 ft lbs. of torque at a range of 1000 to 1600 rpm.
I doubt that increase at such low rpm would have any effect on the frame at all.
Quote from: Gazer61 on December 30, 2010, 02:13:21 AM
does anyone know how much it will cost to have the block bored out? Will the added horse power of the Farmall motor be a problem with the HG frame? I have heard that the switch from the IXK to the bigger IXB was a problem.
I don't think the Farmall engine would be a problem, but there may be certain areas of the frame you may want to beef up while the engine is out. These guys know more about HGs than I do. However, we have an HG-68 with an Oliver 77 engine and it held up fine. It was the experimental tractor for developing the OC-6.
Blake
My thoughts also Blake.
The Oliver 77 engine would more than double the torque on the frame so the small increase of the Farmall would have little to no effect at all.
Just an opinion here. da-choppa, you would sacrifice a willy's engine? Hmm! If I came across a willy's flathead 4 cylinder I would moost definitely keep it as a spare. My brother and I have an all original CJ2A, 1947 vintage. I think it would be simpler to locate a Hercules similar to the original from the Hg or OC3. Look around the tractor scrap yards for an Avery or something similar. That Hercules, or similar models were widely used. My father has an OC3-42 Industrial and an OC3-32. The 32 has a swapped in engine out of who-knows-what. The only obvious difference is the engine now has a distributor and coil rather than a magneto. I would think it would not be too difficult, with a bit of patience, to find a substitute. If you have any spare willy's parts, please let me know!
Kevin
well, maybe not
sacraficed" but used once again!
I'll agree with not using any ww2 dated engine blocks, as they are getting scarce.. Post war dont seem all that scarce around these parts.
it was a idea anyway.
What about finding and using a MODEL "A" engine and transmission combintaion? Not sure if the stock bellhousing would be too large or not yo fit between the Oliver HG frame??
Sort of a part Model "A" Aux install per the AUX tranny section.
My point is that the HG does not have a very robust frame to begin with. I realize that it is a lot of money, but I fall under the purist label. ;D
Have you thought about an engine out of an Oliver 66? There is a person in this area that did that and it worked pretty good. I thought about it but went with rebuilding my IXB-3. Machine work and parts set me back $1350. That's bore and boil, valve guides and grind, grind and polish the crank, 8valves, 4 new pistons, new rod and main bearings and gaskets.
How about a Continental, like a F163. They made a bunch of these for industrial applications and parts should be still available. We used F163s in our Tennant scrubbers and sweepers when I worked for GM. They were good tough little engines. We ran hydraulic pumps off of them and they ran all day at governored speed.