Working on my AUX transmission project.
I am having some issues, maybe some one of you who already finished your AUX transmission project have experienced these same issues and can shed some light.
I am following the article as written by Dick Wolcott based on John Demarras original work.
Received in all the parts, clutch disk, from Snyders, T.O. bearing and carrier from Vintage PW, u-joints, transmission front and rear sealed bearings, etc. locally.
So far, I have done the following:
Rebuilt the transmission and installed the new bearings. All looks good here.
I have machined the clutch cover down to the 3" as the article specifies. Removed the original pivot shaft and drilled out to 1/2" diameter and welded in a 1/2" diameter shaft to the original TO bearing "U" shaped clutch release yoke.
Again, so far all per the instructions and all looks exactly like the pics in the article.
I have the plates being made, so I don?t have them yet, but today, I decided to play around with the new clutch linkage and see where it will all line up.
I bolted the machined cast clutch cover with now welded shaft and "U" shaped release bracket onto the motors bell housing.
I tried putting the transmission into place.
Darned if the front bearing retainer/ throw out bearing carrier (the part that the TO bearing slides along) touches the clutch pressure plates actuating fingers! I cant go PAST the fingers. A quick measurement to the maximum depth I could go was about within 2"
between the mating surfaces (I believe I need around the total distance of the two plates, 1/2" and 3/8") I am not in far enough, AND those clutch fingers are not allowing me past this point.
That is my first issue. Diameter of new model "A" bearing carrier is bigger than the original. It also appears as if it will be TOO LONG. I thought I read somewhere that in some installations, one might need to trim back the length of the front bearing retainer/ throw out bearing carrier? Not sure where I read it, but it looks like this may be needed. Any thoughts? I wonder if there were different clutches with different fingers and sizes? hummm.
My second issue... after trying the above, I removed the transmission and put aside...I wanted to see just how the new throw out bearing and carrier would fit/work with my new release "U" lever in place..
Dang. The bottom portion of the ?U? bracket will touch the clutch body well before the clutch will disengage.. What the heck is going on? It the same ?U? bracket, pivoting from the same axis location, and the T.O bearing and carrier appear to be the same length as the original setup.
One last thought: the replacement Ford model ?A? clutch disk was very thick, much thicker than the one I removed (and it was in really good shape, nearly new).. The Ford disk looked like it had two (2) facings, making it about ?? thick.. the original wasn?t that thick at all.Do you think that the fact that the replacement disk being thicker would cause the release fingers to be in further in when installed than on the original disk?
It?s the ONLY thing I can think of that?s different.. ?U? bracket is the same, TO carrier same size/distance face to bracket engagement, etc.
Can anyone help here? Anyone else see these issues in their project AUX tranny install?
Thanks for any input guys.. Dave
Dave when I did my aux trans a year ago I had a few problems as well but worked them out and now really like how my machine runs. One of the problems that I had and have not figured out why was that the release bearing was pushing on the fingers and my clutch was being engaged I put an extra spacer in between the model A trans and bellhousing. It is a quarter inch thick and so something was off somewhere but works fine now but it seems like you are a lot further off than just a quarter inch. Can you post some pictures or a link to some that is showing the set up you have. I just took my trans out to finally paint everything after a year of putting it in which means I am actually finishing this faster than most projects. I can take some pics of my set up to compare it to yours if you like just let me know what you want a pic of.
Two other thing my clutch from Snyder?s that I bought a year ago is about .36" thick and is not that much thicker than the original is yours thicker than that? Make sure the flywheel side is NOT against the flywheel I made that mistake one time putting it together.
You also mentioned the throwout carrier there is a pic in the technical section that shows it check to see if your sizes are correct.
Choppa.........Here are a few pics of how I did my conversion. I think I cut down the Model A throwout Brg Housing on my lathe to make it shorter.
http://s1026.photobucket.com/albums/y326/DeLong1/dozer%20Clutch%20conversion/
thanks to you both for responding.
I think I may have a solution.
First off, the clutch pressure plate I have will not work without grinding each "finger" down a bit to where the diameter of the T.O. bearing carrier will pass.
Instead of this, I just ordered a new clutch pressure plate from Zimmermans., Talking with Landis, and telling him what I intended to do, he did indeed verify that the later model clutches with adjustment screws on the end of each finger do in fact have a much larger distance between ends than the earlier type. thus allowing the larger diameter T.O carrier to pass thru and past the fingers.
It?s on the way. Will verify when I see it in person.
I supposed I could have just ground down each finger on the clutch that I already had to allow the carrier to pass. There would be little left on each finger for the T.O. bearing however. So I didn?t.
The other issue I have is as you stated: The T.O bearing carrier will interfere with the clutch disk unless I cut it down a bit. I intend to do this this weekend.
The last issue I have is what I will call the structural sturdieness of the Wolcott solution over the DeMarrais solution using the smaller rod on top and original "U" bracket vs. John's larger diameter 7/8 shaft and original model "A" clutch fork.
I did have one question that one of you who went this route might be able to answer: That is, a accurate dimmension to drill the cross shaft for the 7/8? diamter rod to pass? I hate to go too far either way..
I intent to employ a local machinist to drill this cross shaft hole thru the housing, and need a pretty close dimension to give him.
The LAST thing I want to ask you, Delong1.. I wen to the link of photos of your progress.
This one in particular:
http://s1026.photobucket.com/albums/y326/DeLong1/dozer%20Clutch%20conversion/?action=view¤t=makingupclutch.jpg
Why didn?t you just enlarge the existing ? diameter pivot holes up above and put the 7/8? cross shaft there?
Is the distance from this shafts centerline to the T.O bearing center/carrier not the same using this hole or do you know?
Looking at that photo, it sorta looks like the distance of the drilled holes you made are about the same as the upper ?? diameter pivot holes, No?
Thanks, Dave
I put the shaft there because thats the way the man showed it done!.....Works well.
here is your dimensions from the aux transmission information section on the main page of this site.
http://www.cletrac.org/media/aux_trans/modified_housing_drawing.jpg
yea, I have access to that drawing as well. It does not show the distance from the centerline of the TO bearing.
As this drawing of the clutch cover is shown, it only shows the vertical positioning. Nothing horizontal.
thats my question... where to locate HORIZONTALLY given this drawings orientation.
do you know? Spectra? can you give me this dimension off of your finished machine?
I hate asking some folks for this.. I keep forgeting that other may live in a snow belt, and have their tractor in inheated garages! I keep forgeting that not everyone is enjoying a 65 degree and sunny day in Dallas!
thanks, Dave
BTW.. received in the new clutch from Zimmermans.. just got back in from the garage and installed. TOTALY different in terms of space for the to bearing carrier as opposed to what I had. this new one will work fine. Just fine.
My brother the machinist back home made my plates.. THey came in today too! Looking good... all I need now is the model "A" . clutch fork, which I ordered today. Cant wait to install this setup..
So, if its at all possible, anyone with access to their machine, can they give me a dimension to locate this 7/8" shaft HORIZontally please? otherwise, I may try to just enlarge those upper pivot holes and see just where they fall in relation to the alighment of the clutch fork! Hey, there is more than one way to skin a cat!
I will go measure mine after I eat.
wow! talk abut fast response! I just posted!
thanks, Man!
Dave
I believe the measurement is 4" check the pics out. I also took a pic of the pressure plate since mine is a 1939 it should be the early style. If this is not the dimension you need just let me know.
http://s1128.photobucket.com/albums/m495/spectra170/Cletrac%20clutch/ (http://s1128.photobucket.com/albums/m495/spectra170/Cletrac%20clutch/)
thanks Spectra! Looks like then about 3" from dead center of the TO bearing carrier hole, or if one used a 8" x 8" plate (like I did) its then 1" from the bottom of the plate as well.
John DeMarrias gives the distance from the top of the plate down (vertically) so it looks like I am good to go.
thanks all.
will report on my progress!