Hello all, my name is Scott and I live in Fredericksburg, VA.
I bought my first Oliver/Cletrac about a two weeks ago &
Got it home last weekend. I call her "Cleopatra" 'cause
she's so purdy! Hopefully she's not the last. I'm still looking
for a serial number, I'm sure I don't have to tell you guys
That the serial number plate is gone. The engine appears to
be stuck, the exhaust manifold is broken off, so I expected
the worst but the top end looks pretty good. A little rust on
one exhaust lifter, light surface rust on cyl #2. Cyl#1 had
some kind of insect infestation. All the bores look like they
will clean up ok. From what I read it may have a military
engine in her, the casting number on the right front is
1-4-57. The serial number on the block is 2499905TC
below that is stamped IXLB5. I've read That the fives
were not installed in these machines, if it is military, just
how hard are parts to get? I'd like to thank Blake and
everyone else as I am about to start asking a lot of
questions. Thanks everybody!
Scott R.
The IXLB is a long stroke version of the IXB engine. It may or may not be military, it not a military spec engine. An IXB5 is 3 1/4" bore 4" stroke. The IXLB5 is 3 1/4" bore 4 1/4" stroke. I don't have any info on that engine but I would expect most parts would be the same expect the crank and block. It will have about 2 more HP at rated speed of 1750 rpm. I think the 5 gear engine had a different governor setup. A while back there was a NOS crank for sale on E bay. It should make a good engine for your tractor even though it is not original
Thanks for the reply Robert. I had not been able to find any info on what the "L" in IXLB stood for. This is the first engine I have seen with a gear driven generator, the governor & the generator actually are driven from the same timing gear. The nose on the generator gear fits inside a recess in the governor gear. I am having trouble getting the distributor & water pump off of the engine. They are paired together driven off the same gear on the left side of the engine. The shaft that runs thru the distributor to drive the pump seems to be stuck, because of this the whole assembly needs to turn or the timing gears need to move to allow it to be removed. I'll be working on that this weekend. Hopefully i can get the engine out this weekend, I'll feel better once I know the condition of the internals. Thanks again for the info.
Scott R.
Welcome to the forum Scott. We love pictures!
Scott I have never seen an IXLB but the setup you describe is very similar to what Hercules used on the larger engines. So that engine would be a heavier duty engine than the regular IXB. I hope you find good things inside!
Thanks Steve, I have really enjoyed your OC46 restoration. Just where in Virgina did you find your OC46, if it was near by I'm going to be really mad! LOL!
You should be able get a good look inside Robert, I have been taking lots of pictures. I'm still trying to get the loader off the front so I can get at the engine properly.
Scott R.
Scott, I found my OC-46 in Cle Elum, Washington. I live in North Bend, Washington (state)
Hi Scott. Maybe you mean my OC46. I found it up in the hills north-west of Lexington, VA - a place called Milboro.
Reckon I took 6 months off my trailer tires & brakes winding down out of those mountains dragging 8000lbs of crawler and spares :D Chris
Yes, I must have been confused about that, Lexington is a couple of hours away from here. I've hauled my share of stuff over those hills & been scared enough that I may have taken a couple of days off my life LOL.
Scott R.
OK guys going to try to post some pics here, wish me luck!
Serial number :(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/image_zps073bacd5.jpg)
Front of block. : (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/3FDEB4B7-512C-4AC8-A367-2D3A4ABECE7A-171-000000230B670150_zps44e7a4cd.jpg)
Back of block : (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/1C9D8DAC-BF4B-42F7-8E7A-606D8B39881C-171-00000023037A3EEC_zps035075d3.jpg)
Right side date code: (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/A3D9F70D-F954-4A44-BF03-A4F65C60122C-171-00000022C3C341D2_zps3ca5998d.jpg)
Scott R
WOW that worked too well! Let's try it again.
Cyl. Head SN : (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/9353B9EA-3260-4AF8-B248-806A5A27B2E6-171-00000023789AA56C_zpseef6d4b0.jpg)
Head casting numbers , this could be 696 or 969. looking at it here it is "G96". (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/F57CBDE5-79F2-4ADA-B44D-10269C950B6A-171-0000002381DC34CA_zpsc9125639.jpg)
This one is across from spark plug #3 between the 4th & 5th head bolts on the left side:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/87DC1383-542C-44B0-B94B-00B882705C26-171-0000002312303CE3_zpsb2059520.jpg)
Any one know what this one means? It's next to spark plug #4:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/76376EB9-F5EE-4AE5-BF38-8DF7A84437C4-171-000000236AF6AED8_zpsb0a3e6d7.jpg)
All I have found is that it is the acronym for the "Alaska Pacific Energy Corporation" but I doubt it was made for them. Obviously it has no data plate on the engine, or tractor
Stamped on the crank between journals 3 & 4:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/655DE2E5-772E-4B05-9F57-925BD832D04E-171-0000002336D44774_zps5c9f95ee.jpg)
On the opposite side:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/DCA26BC5-1F3E-4147-9C7E-2A3DEA83DD6B-171-00000023494984FF_zpsdf6eecb1.jpg)
Between journals 1 & 2 :(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/72A1CD42-614F-4D73-B242-4510314BB3C9-171-00000023406248E7_zps704da55d.jpg)
And on the opposite side: (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/9EC0FE67-1618-4A93-B29D-DEF96F90EBC0-171-00000023523C6928_zpsb313b065.jpg)
On the front of journal 1 is:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/9024D1E0-F54A-4195-9596-2E4FAF272B56-171-00000023309E02C7_zps11b74001.jpg)
On the crank timing gear:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/44FA1DB6-A57A-4961-ABE4-7993F3D16819-171-00000023284A571F_zps10627235.jpg)
Below that is :(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/50FD6767-28DE-41B9-8E7D-9A361C0A77FE-171-000000231C7F5F16_zps54a60a00.jpg)
On the cam gear:(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/E72B84AE-ED3C-4193-B0DC-F5D10084B4EF-171-00000022FE3423E0_zps6911ed88.jpg)
On the distributor/ waterpump idler: (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/2837BA7E-09E9-4FFD-9B76-86DBB9E58B26-171-00000022F34346DB_zps9621c42d.jpg)
Also on the idler: (http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Lowspeedlife/A2F7D521-CB5F-47A5-9FF1-8EAB1FDB2D2E-171-00000022F8FD6911_zps6907f684.jpg)
I hope these are helpful to some one here so I'm not just taking up data storage space.
The crankshaft looks pretty good, I think the rod journals are o.k. But I'll have the mains re-ground, I can feel the light unevenness when I run a finger nail across it. I'll post pics of the bearing numbers later. The number one cylinder has had a sleeve installed at some point. It is the only one that is bad, I removed as much rust as I could before removing the piston but it still put some nice scratches on that piston. Will need to have the sleeve pressed out & another installed & may need a new piston. Rings on the others look good but ill replace them, obviously. Had a heck of a time getting number 2 & 3 exhaust valves out, broke the head off of 3 & I'm sure I bent #2. Cam looks good, bearings are tight but they will get replaced too. Guess I need to look at how much this is going to cost, surplus center has a 24 hp Perkins 3 cylinder for 2400.00 dollars that may be the way to go on this. Suggestions anyone?
Scott R
Anyone know what SAE spec is for the bell housing on the little Hercules? I will also be looking for sheet metal for her. Got a radiator (missing when I got her) from a guy named John Bohem in California, he deals in Siver king tractors, but had this Herc radiator that wasn't from a silverking. was a real nice rad before UPS beat the crap out of it, i think i can straighten it out. here's his web site. http://vintagetractors.com/parts.html . From the looks of the radiator I don't think these had a pressurized cooling system, is that right? This engine has a water pump so that doesn't seem right. Could I replace the filler neck to a pressurized style & put a 4 psi cap on it ? I don't have an oil filter on this engine either, need to figure out how to fit one to her. Any suggestions or pictures of an original set up?
Told you I was going to ask a lot of questions!
Scott R
Found some surplus Lombardini liquid cooled diesels with low hours on them. They are 1800 rpm generator engines, but that just means they have governors with quick response times. 3 cylinders, 18.4 hp at 1800 rpm, (gubment always rates things low). I worked for the local Lombardini distributor in the '80s. They are nice engines, easy to work on, parts are available, though not cheap. They come as standard on some Pasquali Italian tractors. Just another option.
Scott R.
(Edit 8:00 pm)
Did a little more checking, these are only 12.4 hp at 1800 rpm so thats a not going to be big enough for me. Still if the price is right might be good for gensets.
How much are they and what do they weigh? Might make good garden tractor replacement engines? Gravely?
Hi Blake,
they are actually in 9 kw mil surplus gensets. Anyone interested can PM me & i'll give them the info.
Hello Scott -
None I've seen (have worked on 4) had pressurized cooling systems. The overflow tube was near the top inside the header tank, just under the cap, with no provision for the sealing collar found with pressurized caps.
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the reply, so the hole in the bottom of the top radiator tank is for an overflow tube. Good thing I haven't soldered it closed yet ::), what was in there, a piece of brass tubing about 5/16 ths or 3/8 ths of an inch? Or was it copper? Did it turn to the left after it exited & have a hose attached or was it tubing all the way down to the frame? Maybe I can find a picture some where. If not I'll just wing it. It will all be under the sheet metal, no one will see it.
Scott R
If you stick with the Hercules you need an IXB engine manual. The IXB-5 engines and the L versions are covered in those manuals. If you don't keep it I am sure somebody that pulls one of the crawlers (B. F> Avery) would want a stroker crank for his pulling tractor. IXB 5 means it has 5 timing gears. IXB-3 as used in the crawlers have 3 timing gears. Also are your bearings shim adjustable? Main bearings are being reproduced, but bring your checkbook ($$$). I might have an extra IXB manual, there are a couple different ones.
Thanks John, I've already ordered both an IX service manual & an IX-5 parts manual for 29.95 each (at least the the shipping was free). Hopefully they will be here soon. Have read everything there is on the Internet about the IX series of engines, but hadn't found anything about the cooling system being pressurized or not. As to bearings, I didn't see any shims when I removed them but that doesn't mean they should not have been there. Anything I should be looking for that would tell me if they should be there? Looks like valves are about $30.00 apiece, Stiener has ring sets for $69.00 but they state they are for three compression ring / 1 oil ring pistons. Mine have two compression & two oil rings, maybe they will make-up a set for me looks like they are all "custom" ring sets. Haven't located bearings but really haven't tried since I'm not sure what the journal size will be.
Scott R.
Scott -
Re the overflow - I'd guess it is 1/4" copper tubing. And it ran down the right side of the rad to the bottom - behind the core fins, and tight to the mounting tinwork. I think it was soldered at a few points on the way to the bottom, but could be retained with 2 or three clamps held on with screws or #6 or #8 bolts and nuts.
It has to be held firmly so it doesn't flip out and catch the fan.
I'll double check mine in the morning, and if any change, will update this post.
jack
Thanks Jack, coppers a lot easier to form than brass, think I've got 1/4 & 5/16ths 'round here someplace. Time to start diggin' LOL!
Scott R
Rad is not pressurized. I have a decent spare IXB5, if you need it? Bottom end was rebuilt to 10 under. Was fitted on an HG68. But I have not run it yet as it came without a distributor :(
It does have the cut-out for a magneto though.
Thanks Chris, I'll keep your kind offer in mind as I find out how much it will cost to get my existing engine back in shape. Took the block, crank & head to a small local machinist that has been doing machine work for over forty years. He's going to tank clean the block & head, pressure check it & see what it really needs. At this point, I see it needing : sleeve replaced in cyl #1, new sleeve in cyl #2. New valve seats for all four exhaust valves. At least one valve guide (cracked). Crank mains ground .010 under size. New main & rod bearings, cam bearings, four sets of rings & one new piston. Interestingly I found about a foot & a half of steel tie wire in the cooling jacket of the block along with four small pieces of cast iron about the size of a dime & about 4 times the thickness of a dime. I think these are the water pump impeller vanes! All four were on the left side of the engine just below where the water pump discharge hose connects back to the block. I had a hard time getting the water pump/distributor drive housing off the engine as I could not get it to turn, finally i did get it to move by applying a pipe wrench to turn it about an inch, to allow the timing gears to disengage. Should hear back from the machinist by the weekend. Hes going to see if he can locate bearings & a piston for me.
Wish me luck!
Scott R
Well this is rapidly turning bad, my block needs at least three cylinders bored out ( that means all four), new valve seats on all exhausts & several new valves. the crank mains ground undersize & new bearings, as John S said they are expensive. My machinist got a quote of $488.00 for the mains & rods alone. I have located three NOSrod bearings & bought them just cause the auction was ending. So with new pistons, rings bearings & machine work, just making the engine run is getting costly. Surplus center has the little Caterpillar/perkins C1.1 engine for $2200.00. Looks like I'm easily going to spend that on this one. I'd jump on the cat but there is no bellhousing & the flywheel is not set up for a clutch. The only info I have found on bellhousing/flywheels is that they are hard to find & expensive, like 1200 to 1500 bucks. That puts it into the $3700.00 range. Maybe I should be looking for a cummins 4lbt or similar engine. There is still Chris' IXB-5 offer, decisions, decisions, decisions!
Scott R
I can sell you a new set of rods and mains for 30% less than that. Every bit helps ;)
Chris
Hello Scott,
I'm in a similar situation with an older IXK block in an HG. It has the "poured" crank main and rod bearings. They all need replacing along with pistons, valves etc. etc. It got way to expensive. I recently purchased a little Kubota 1105 diesel engine with a turbo out of a Jacobsen mower. I'm in the process of working through all of the details of a swap. Swaps get expensive too. It is looking like my biggest challenge will be coming up with the right clutch/bell housing combo. I will be putting in an "under drive" transmission as well. I have a model A trans but I may end up with a small transmission (if I can find the right one) with the same output shaft spline configuration as the smaller Kubota clutch discs. It will be a long drawn out process for sure but, if it all works out, will provide a very fuel efficient little crawler.
Jim Leap
San Juan Bautista, CA
We have the experimental HG that was used in the development of the OC-6. It has on Oliver 77 engine and performed well with it. You may want to consider something like that.
Blake