Cletrac.org

Cletrac Tractor Discussion => All Models Except HG, OC-3, OC-4 & General => Topic started by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:48:49 AM

Title: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:48:49 AM
I am working on reassembly of the OOC for my 20c. Issues right now: Any one know of a decent manual for these motors? The one from Jensales is garbage...

Next, what goes in these holes? Are they just plugged?
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/2015-03-16%2021.51.19_zpszrkrcy27.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/2015-03-16%2021.51.19_zpszrkrcy27.jpg.html)

Anyone have a decent picture of what the governor should look like? Mine has been apart and I feel it is missing parts.... Also anyone with an extra impeller/ water pump shaft? Mine needs a LOT of help.  :(  This engine was in boxes when I acquired the tractor. As of now it has all new valves, seats, two sleeves. New rings, one new piston, a new water pump impeller (all on the way from Zimmerman's)... I have the entire gasket set just waiting for parts... I hope someone here can help  ???
Thanks!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:50:45 AM
the impeller remnants:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150316_200950_zpstigqig1p.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150316_200950_zpstigqig1p.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:51:27 AM
impeller shaft
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150316_203612_zps983y3h6t.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150316_203612_zps983y3h6t.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:52:25 AM


crank in nice and tight and ready for the pistons and rods
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150316_185415_zpsx5z44tfx.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150316_185415_zpsx5z44tfx.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:55:07 AM

cam gear in and timed:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150316_190617_zpswl9q3qub.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150316_190617_zpswl9q3qub.jpg.html)

Still need to figure out how to time the governor to the cam... and of course the ignition timing to boot, hence why the request for a decent manual  ;D
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 18, 2015, 04:58:55 AM
And because the impeller, impeller shaft, and governor where not enough surprise, the oil filter:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150316_203622_zpspdmtjgt6.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150316_203622_zpspdmtjgt6.jpg.html)

Everything was blasted today and is now soaking in solvent. The original plan (back when I dropped the block off at the Machinist in October) was to install the engine next week and drive t he tractor. Well the machinist did not even get me the block back until after Valentine's day, and even then I had to take it back as they had not cleaned all the shavings out...  ??? Now its ready and as I go through parts I was told where "ok" I'm finding more issues... the joys of equipment restoration!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Jethrow on March 19, 2015, 10:28:05 PM
Have you looked at the Yesterdays Tractors site?

They list a Hercules Engines Hercules OOC Service Manual for 21.95, might do the trick.

Also, you might take a look a the 20c owners in the photo album and  contact a member directly. 

Good luck on the project.

Jethrow
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Bob on March 20, 2015, 01:52:00 AM
I've got a manual for that engine. Looking good so far.

Might have some water pump parts as well
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 21, 2015, 05:04:35 AM
Quote from: Bob on March 20, 2015, 01:52:00 AM
I've got a manual for that engine. Looking good so far.

Might have some water pump parts as well

I'd be very interested in a manual if you have an original! I was able to source a NOS impeller from Landis Zimmerman, but a good used impeller shaft would be great!

Quote from: Jethrow on March 19, 2015, 10:28:05 PM
Have you looked at the Yesterdays Tractors site?

They list a Hercules Engines Hercules OOC Service Manual for 21.95, might do the trick.

Also, you might take a look a the 20c owners in the photo album and  contact a member directly. 

Good luck on the project.

Jethrow

Unfortunately, its a poorly done photocopy of a manual that covers service data for several models, it does not actually have much but the "specs" for the OOC, no actual assembly information, I already wasted money on one  :) Thanks for the help though! Looking for all the support I can on this endeavor!

I have the parts for the oil filter assembly and governor  cleaned, just trying to find a decent picture of the governor assembly to figure out what I'm missing so I can remake or replace it and then I need to figure out what goes in the holes in the block I noted above...

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on March 29, 2015, 07:23:50 PM
I would just like to give a big "thank you!" to Bob for all of his help! He has been so willing to provide information that has now become invaluable as I work to reassemble the engine. Still working on figuring out what should go in the holes I have noted in the above picture. But once again, THANK YOU Bob!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 01, 2015, 12:23:56 AM
I finally  have rings and a replacement  piston! So while I have  a connecting rod that needs new babbitt,  I couldn't wait any longer, so I installed the other three pistons...
First checking the ring fit :
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210027_zpscwruzdsw.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210027_zpscwruzdsw.jpg.html)

Then it's time to install the connecting rod back into the piston :
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_205936_zpsrqy4pvxu.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_205936_zpsrqy4pvxu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 01, 2015, 12:26:14 AM

Then install the rings:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210123_zps0y5rjjnx.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210123_zps0y5rjjnx.jpg.html)

With rings installed, its time to use the "custom" ring compressor to get the piston into the bore:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210329_zpspl6okdj5.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210329_zpspl6okdj5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 01, 2015, 12:29:02 AM

Safely home:

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210339_zps2vl5edsj.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210339_zps2vl5edsj.jpg.html)

Then line up the rod with the crank
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210428_zpsqybhmade.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210428_zpsqybhmade.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 01, 2015, 12:31:38 AM
Get everything in place and tightened down :

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_210733_zpsv673mmlv.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_210733_zpsv673mmlv.jpg.html)

As mentioned I have one rod that needs new babbitt, today I found that none of the local shops can do the bearing, so it'll be a send out...

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150330_211131_zps7ivbgbgn.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150330_211131_zps7ivbgbgn.jpg.html)

More to come! Waiting on a new bearing and seal for the water pump so that I can get it rebuilt and ready to go...I also searched out local spray welders today for the water pump shaft to no avail. We are going to do some research and see if we can't do the spray welding here at the Rusty Engines shop, the boss man says hes done it before, we just have to see if we have the right media for this job... maybe its time for some fun ... off to watch youtube videos about spray welding!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on April 01, 2015, 08:57:21 PM
They say pouring babbit is not too difficult if you study up on it. I've only poured one bearing and that was on the valve linkage on a Rumely steam engine. It turned out fine.

I see you have cotter pins in the bolts that hold the wrist pins. I don't think cotter pins are going to do anything to keep the bolts from turning. I'm pretty sure they should be wired in such a manner that the tension on the wire keeps the bolts from turning. There is a way to do this properly, but I cannot explain it here. You should be able to look it up on google. The cotter pins on the castle nuts on the rods are probably ok, but I would make sure they are tight and cannot moved around when the rods are whipping around inside the engine. Any movement will make them break.

Regarding your water pump shaft…  you could have it hard chromed and then ground to the original size. That do that with piston and valve rods that are worn or pitted on steam engines. Find a place that chromes hydraulic cylinders and ask them about it. It has to be hard chrome. Once it is done, it should never go bad, and the packing on the water pump should last virtually forever.

Blake
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 04, 2015, 04:08:24 AM
Thank you for your input. The cotter pins are per a manual from a JD diesel, they wedge against the rod keeping the wrist pin bolt tight (there are three  sets of holes through the head so as to utilize the hole that will keep it tight), I've seen this in other old engines and tractors. It is also quite comon to use cotter pins through the castle nuts, they are a tight solid fit. While wire could be used, the cotter pins are much quicker.  I've poured babbitt, but the rod needs to be machined  so that it is perfectly square and I lack the jig to do, so we sent it out to a specialist on Wednesday.  I talked with a shop about having the shaft  hard chromed, but the cost was way expensive, it would be a send out  with a 6-8 week turn around so we'll either spray weld or just machine a new piece. I just hope to get it into the tractor soon!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Bob on April 08, 2015, 12:45:37 AM
Check with Bill Kycia a couple posts down. Hes looking at parting out an E that would have a water pump like yours. If its in better condition. If you cant get him here, I can get him on the phone, or have my buddy knock on his door!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on April 08, 2015, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: Bob on April 08, 2015, 12:45:37 AM
Check with Bill Kycia a couple posts down. Hes looking at parting out an E that would have a water pump like yours. If its in better condition. If you cant get him here, I can get him on the phone, or have my buddy knock on his door!

Thank you! I'll see if I can contact him through here, if not I'll let you know!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on June 11, 2015, 07:22:49 AM
This project has been on a standstill for a while now as I was stuck waiting for parts... they are here (for the most part)! Bill Kycia helped out in a big way with a complete governor and a magneto mount that will get this project going again! I have the rebabitted rod back and in the engine. I will get pictures posted as soon as I can get some more work done! I still need to make the new water pump shaft, but that can be done after everything else is back together. I hope to have the engine assembled after Coolsprings. 
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 11, 2015, 04:53:27 PM
We found time today to complete a little more work on the OOC... we started on the water pump impeller rod.

The initial plan called for drilling from the front side of the shaft clear through, this we found would be very difficult given that the retaining pin for the gear is hardened.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/2015-08-25%2017.39.16_zpsgk9ize6v.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/2015-08-25%2017.39.16_zpsgk9ize6v.jpg.html)

So we spun the shaft around, took some measurements and turned off the worn out impeller shaft.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_155247_zpsj4ths9km.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_155247_zpsj4ths9km.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 11, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
Then we drilled out the portion that we plan to reuse, we have decided to go press fit with the shaft and then pin it in place.
Centering:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_155407_zpskb7slcqm.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_155407_zpskb7slcqm.jpg.html)

Drilling
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_155907_zpsbyxijljo.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_155907_zpsbyxijljo.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 11, 2015, 04:56:56 PM
Reaming
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_160735_zpswtxm9drr.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_160735_zpswtxm9drr.jpg.html)

Test fit, with a little knurling to the shaft it should make a nice tight fit. We will also drill and pin the two parts together to make sure nothing slips or comes apart.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_172554_zpsaav1c6kd.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_172554_zpsaav1c6kd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 11, 2015, 04:58:23 PM
And marking the new shaft for the impeller key way and the magneto drive key way:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150825_172534_zpsk1yx4wsu.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150825_172534_zpsk1yx4wsu.jpg.html)

One day closer! With luck we will get the shaft finished up and I can get the pump on the engine and wrap it up and prepare for installation!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on September 12, 2015, 08:27:20 PM
Great job!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 12:09:12 AM
Thank you!
Today we did a little more work... The impeller shaft is finished! Today we cut the key ways and fit the two halves together.
Cutting the first wooruff key slot
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_100621_zpsarl8w8tt.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_100621_zpsarl8w8tt.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_100709_zps9unordsp.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_100709_zps9unordsp.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 12:09:56 AM
With the key slots taken care of, we chucked the shaft back up in the lathe and knurled the end of it:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_102959_zps2nxo9aqb.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_102959_zps2nxo9aqb.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_103053_zpsxb9iytgt.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_103053_zpsxb9iytgt.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 12:11:09 AM

The two halves pressed together:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_104517_zpsoinhskod.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_104517_zpsoinhskod.jpg.html)

While the fit was VERY tight, we still decided to drill and place a roll pin just to be sure nothing happens:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_110726_zps2fpwovqk.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_110726_zps2fpwovqk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 12:12:31 AM
Then, it was time to take the parts home and reassemble the pump and mount it back to the engine.

The impeller shaft installed in the carrier and impeller in place.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_130630_zpspktok9mk.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_130630_zpspktok9mk.jpg.html)

All together and back on the engine!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_140730_zpsufd2g5oe.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_140730_zpsufd2g5oe.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 12:16:37 AM
This was as far as I made it today :( I pulled the engine off the stand with plans to install the rear main seal and then install the back portion of the engine, the flywheel, and clutch... unfortunately the rear main seal that Olsson Gasket sent does not fit... they are as miffed as I am trying to figure it out, once that is resolved I'll be able to wrap that up and can place the engine in the tractor! I still need to make a few pieces and repair the radiator  fan carrier, but those are minor things... I hope!

The engine is sitting on the shop floor now, patiently awaiting a rear main...
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150922_173531_zpsfljc5ou4.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150922_173531_zpsfljc5ou4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 06:16:48 PM
After talking with Zimmerman's today, I discovered why the rear man supplied by Olsson's will not fit my OOC... this engine never had a rear main! Apparently  on the early Hercules OOC engines used in the early Cletrac 20Cs (i.e. my first year production tractor) the engine did not have a rear main. Instead it had an oil slinger on the back of the crank to force oil back into the block.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/2015-09-23%2011.52.17_zpsl79ddium.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/2015-09-23%2011.52.17_zpsl79ddium.jpg.html)

Any oil that made it past the slinger would be caught in a oil scavenger groove machined in the rear cover designed to prevent loss of oil:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/2015-09-23%2011.53.44_zpsgbnnjjdg.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/2015-09-23%2011.53.44_zpsgbnnjjdg.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 23, 2015, 06:17:43 PM
Then any scavenged oil was drained back into the crankcase by the holes milled into the lower portion of the scavenger groove.
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/2015-09-23%2011.54.54_zpsxydkpsog.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/2015-09-23%2011.54.54_zpsxydkpsog.jpg.html)

So now I guess I can get this thing together and in the tractor!

And after an hour in the shop this afternoon. .. its altogether!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150923_155917_zpsrhueq3nx.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150923_155917_zpsrhueq3nx.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 25, 2015, 01:55:30 AM
Today I made a new exhaust adapter to mate the exhaust pipe to the manifold. The original was quite warped and could not really be saved, so:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_181601_zps25ba2s1r.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_181601_zps25ba2s1r.jpg.html)


(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_181537_zps9xfgg5jm.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_181537_zps9xfgg5jm.jpg.html)old, the original was quite warped and beyond help:
[URL=http:/
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 25, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
I also made a plate to cover the block water drain. Originally there was a thick freeze plug here with a valve threaded through it, I was unable to find a sufficiently thick plug to drill and thread. Fortunately the block was drilled and taped to either side, so a cut a plate and added a drain to it:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_182942_zpsmqflkeel.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_182942_zpsmqflkeel.jpg.html)

I also placed a new sealed pilot bearing. It fits tight into the flywheel and should help further control any oil from being slung, plus no maintenance!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_183106_zps3pmbepjm.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_183106_zps3pmbepjm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 25, 2015, 01:58:11 AM

And the best part was stopping at the local parts house. They had a clutch alignment tool that was a perfect fit, for $10.00, I couldn't pass it up!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_184243_zpsr8j86uou.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_184243_zpsr8j86uou.jpg.html)

I found bearings and seals for the radiator fan, it's all together, but I left the mounting hardware in the machine shop, so I couldn't bolt it on tonight

Oh, and in case you are curious she's READY FOR INSTALLATION!!!!!!!
I'm so excited!
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Bill Kycia on September 26, 2015, 12:15:20 AM
all your work is amazing,nice to see my parts helping another cletrac get running again.Awesome! Bill in CT.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on September 26, 2015, 01:33:41 AM
Looks great! Were the holes in the exit flange of the manifold stripped out or were the threads still in there? Did you have to use through bolts and nuts? Are you going to make your exhaust pipe so it slides over the stub pipe on the manifold?

What are you using for gasket material on the manifold?

Blake

Quote from: biggurn on September 25, 2015, 01:55:30 AM
Today I made a new exhaust adapter to mate the exhaust pipe to the manifold. The original was quite warped and could not really be saved, so:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_181601_zps25ba2s1r.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_181601_zps25ba2s1r.jpg.html)


(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150924_181537_zps9xfgg5jm.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150924_181537_zps9xfgg5jm.jpg.html)old, the original was quite warped and beyond help:
(http://http:/%3Cbr%20/%3E%5B/quote)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 26, 2015, 02:11:52 AM
 Bill,

if it wasn't for your parts, I'd still be making things for this! The governor was great and I'm running that magneto after I rebuilt it with parts off another I had and one a friend gave me. Thank you very much!

Blake,

I just had to chase the threads in the manifold with a tap, and yep the pipe slips right over. I'm using heavy fiber reinforced gasket material for the exhaust flange gasket. Ready to send up some smoke signals.

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150925_194316-1_zpsogtsxpan.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150925_194316-1_zpsogtsxpan.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 28, 2015, 11:35:41 PM
It's loaded....
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150928_170752_zpsl4qnmso5.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150928_170752_zpsl4qnmso5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 30, 2015, 12:07:20 AM
Its in! It runs! It leaks water! So far I have patched four leaks in the radiator,  just put it back on and now there are two more leaks after I fired it up... so I'll pull it back off later in the week and try again! I was amazed how easy it went in, everything just lined up and it slid right into place. Had to play with the magneto timing a little, but once I got it set,  off she went!

First run: https://youtu.be/ByOdylr-2pU

Engine in
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150929_163109-1_zps60oyzltv.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150929_163109-1_zps60oyzltv.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 30, 2015, 12:10:52 AM
Radiator on...
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150929_162812_zpsget3l6mp.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150929_162812_zpsget3l6mp.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150929_162805_zpsme2hlo8v.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150929_162805_zpsme2hlo8v.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on September 30, 2015, 03:36:00 AM
I've successfully repaired old radiators by marking which tubes leak, taking the tanks off and plugging their ends with bondo. For a show tractor that does not do a lot of hard work, you could probably plug half the tubes and be ok.

Quote from: biggurn on September 30, 2015, 12:10:52 AM
Radiator on...
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150929_162812_zpsget3l6mp.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150929_162812_zpsget3l6mp.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20150929_162805_zpsme2hlo8v.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20150929_162805_zpsme2hlo8v.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 30, 2015, 03:38:57 AM
I just soldered them up, doesn't take much time, and I plan to pull with this tractor, so I need it to cool.  I fixed the remaining leaks... then another sprouted. Fixed it, and now leaks free!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_gJSCmViro
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Blake Malkamaki on September 30, 2015, 04:29:02 AM
This guy just asked me whether this tractor was worth anything in parts. It's a Cletrac 15 that someone mounted on wheels and put a GM engine into. Located near Creston, Iowa. Might have a good radiator and other parts.

Blake

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on September 30, 2015, 02:22:55 PM
Little toooo far away from me  :) The cost of shipping anything I might need would be very cost prohibitive. Very cool seeing it converted into a wheeled tractor.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 02, 2015, 12:51:30 AM
hood on, throttle hooked up, and it drives! It needs some work on carb and the governor, but it drives!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04VH_7HjUKU

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151001_173349_zpssqj5pagu.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151001_173349_zpssqj5pagu.jpg.html)

I needed a quick seat, so I grabbed one of my suspension hunting seats out of the truck and used it
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151001_173403_zpsxuypo9nk.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151001_173403_zpsxuypo9nk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 03, 2015, 03:32:22 AM
Went and pulled the carb today to work it over again. While there, I mounted the reproduction data plate that I made for the tractor. Rather than trying to re-rivet it to the tank, I went with 3M industrial two sided tape to secure it in place:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151002_133235_zpsluvbkwjr.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151002_133235_zpsluvbkwjr.jpg.html)

I also etched a little plaque for the dash with the transmission shift pattern:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151002_133223_zps3dkorclo.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151002_133223_zps3dkorclo.jpg.html)

I went through the carb and found that someone had previously drilled out the high speed needle jet passage and seat, wich I missed the first time around, this was allowing it to dump fuel and run very rich. Fortunately I have a spare carb,  the lower is shot on it, but it had a great upper, so I was able to combine the two carbs and built one that will hopefully flow much better and allow the engine to idle smoother.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 04, 2015, 01:16:09 AM
I installed the new fuel sediment bow to the tank and plumbed everything up to the rebuilt carb:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151003_180456_zpstrpk46he.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151003_180456_zpstrpk46he.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151003_180448_zpsaue1qycj.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151003_180448_zpsaue1qycj.jpg.html)

With the rebuilt carb, it now idles!
https://youtu.be/c5KX3IaOFns
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 04, 2015, 01:22:27 AM
I also mounted the reproduction radiator cap that was cast by the Silverton Foundry from an original off a 15 that I was able to borrow. Fits perfect:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151003_162945_zpsbnyishis.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151003_162945_zpsbnyishis.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 07, 2015, 12:42:36 AM
Spent more time working on the Cletrac today. First up was getting the air filter canister installed:(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_112550_zpsqy0hfmok.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_112550_zpsqy0hfmok.jpg.html)

Made a replacement ferrell for the carburetor to secure the choke cable:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_140754_zpsdp3miiyd.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_140754_zpsdp3miiyd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 07, 2015, 12:45:09 AM
Then I finished hooking up the air intake and routed the choke cable:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_151343-1_zps9lndsbpb.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_151343-1_zps9lndsbpb.jpg.html)

Turned out I had the radiator cap on upside down! A friend pointed this out, so that was the easiest fix of the day:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_111743_zpsgwiml2c5.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_111743_zpsgwiml2c5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 07, 2015, 12:49:14 AM

I finished off the day at the barn by painting up the cletrac and 20 so that they would stand out more:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_142741_zpsglz3v87t.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_142741_zpsglz3v87t.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_142753_zpso836vzwk.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_142753_zpso836vzwk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 07, 2015, 12:51:55 AM

I brought the seat home so that I could straiten it up and weld a piece of angle across the front to keep it square. With that done I cut our some plywood for the upholstery base. Because one side of the seat had been crushed in, I used my handyman jack as a spreader. Worked quite well. They make good winches too...
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151006_165229-1_zpsj1q7w98y.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151006_165229-1_zpsj1q7w98y.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 07, 2015, 11:01:08 PM
The intake prefilter arrived today, nice and rusty with a litle lichen growing, matches the patina perfectly! Last night after the kids went to bed, I snuck out to the shop and fabed up a replacement crank holder,  fits and functions perfectly.

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151007_153852_zpsy5zk5uud.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151007_153852_zpsy5zk5uud.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151007_153840_zpsycgrqy3w.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151007_153840_zpsycgrqy3w.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 09, 2015, 01:23:37 AM
Finished up the seat this morning. A friend came up with two NOS spring filled seats that he bought surplus years ago. I was able to take them apart and reorganize them into a fit for the 20c. Had to do some cutting and welding, but its all ready and off for upholstery.

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151008_093300_zpsf2ffzn4q.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151008_093300_zpsf2ffzn4q.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151008_094100_zpswowpsdfm.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151008_094100_zpswowpsdfm.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 09, 2015, 01:24:32 AM
I also finished of the seat base with a couple of vinyl stencils and some paint.

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151008_085201_zpsvw9zdihg.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151008_085201_zpsvw9zdihg.jpg.html)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151008_090853_zpsoe5y5s7u.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151008_090853_zpsoe5y5s7u.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 10, 2015, 02:33:54 AM
Its DONE! The upholsterer had the seat ready next day (today) because when I said it was for the tractor, he interpreted that as me needing it for harvest... well I do not have any sugar beats or potatoes to dig, but now the tractor is done!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_155341-1_zpstvbalcey.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_155341-1_zpstvbalcey.jpg.html)

I ordered a set of boots from Zimmerman's, they also arrived today!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_163226_zpspnsl8ml4.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_163226_zpspnsl8ml4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 10, 2015, 02:34:55 AM
The rivets to mount the reproduction brass tag for the engine also arrived:
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_163218_zpsjpsvvp4h.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_163218_zpsjpsvvp4h.jpg.html)

So... she's all together and running well! Done and ready for next year's shows!
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_171237-1-1_zpsqnjj32s3.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_171237-1-1_zpsqnjj32s3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 10, 2015, 02:35:55 AM
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_165935-1_zpstfgetjhq.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_165935-1_zpstfgetjhq.jpg.html)

Hooked up to the little grader, the "money shot"
(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/highmark05/20151009_165908_zpsj6rp7r2y.jpg) (http://s822.photobucket.com/user/highmark05/media/20151009_165908_zpsj6rp7r2y.jpg.html)

I am just so pleased that this project came together and to have it done. I do not think it could have turned out better. It is just such a neat tractor. I still need to drain all of the drive fluids and replace those, but I'll wait until spring when I do the Case L, but that'll take nearly a drum of oil to do both.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Johnny lunch pail on October 12, 2015, 11:31:46 PM
Hi BigGurn,
I've read this post over and over again, It's helping me familiarize myself with the OOC engine that's in the E-38 that just followed me home.
Thank you very much for going into such detail with the rebuild, Oh and your machine looks great.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: biggurn on October 13, 2015, 02:39:00 AM
no problem.
Title: Re: Cletrac 20C w/ Hercules OOC Restoration Help/Questions....
Post by: Joshua_d on February 13, 2016, 09:13:41 AM
Awesome i have a 20C in similar condition that i will start on soon after i finish the case backhoe.. all this information will be priceless when i start.