Cletrac.org

Hello again.  Does anybody have any experience of fitting a hercules DD298 into a cletrac BD.  I have another BD (not the one with the running problem) which I have no usable engine for I do have the flywheel and the plate that connects the engine to the gearbox.  I was going to fit a perkins engine, but the hercules would be a more suitable engine I think and maybe easier to fit? Sam

Sam last year when I was over in the UK and we went to see the man you told Jeff and I to see he had a BD with a 354 Perkins. Just walking by I was impressed. Lot more parts for a 354 out there. Drive down and take a look at it.

Thanks John, thats interesting, it will be a 6.354 (6cyl 354cu in) we have one of them on a pump at home.  The perkins I have for my bd is a R640 which would be fun but I'm starting to think its a bit too big (640cu in V8) its only done 30,000 miles in a fire truck and runs extremely well, and it sounds fantastic. Sam

I wonder what it would take to put a Cummins B5.9 engine in a B or OC-12? These engines are 360 cubic inch and have real good low end torque - the newer ones up to 600 ft-lbs at 1400 rpm. Since they are in so many Dodge pickup trucks, it should be easy to find the older engines.

Blake

Blake: That B Cummins and the bigger C were a joint development by Cummins and J. I Case.  That is why some say Consolidated Engine Corporation. I had a clipping a few years ago where they had made  one million B & C engines. They are also made in one country. There are also many versions of those engines. I taught a cone day class on them. Check your CPL number and then figgure out where you are at. Fos Sam. Remmember not all 354 Perkins are alike either.  You can get more horsepower  and torque out of a 354 dot four Perkins than what that transmission can handle.

One thing I guess I ought to look at when finding an engine is one that is slow reving.  most more modern diesels idle at 700-800rpm and will go to 2000 plus which would not be ideal when replacing an engine that had a rev range of 400- 1400.  The perkins I have is too fast I think 800 - 2800, which would give a top speed of somewhere in the region of 10mph, a bit fast for a crawler don't you think!  

Sam, just because a modern engine is rated at 2000+ rpm and can go beyond that does not mean you have to set it up that high. John may know more about the Cummins B ratings at lower speeds, but I know they run them a lot slower in farm tractors and power plants than they do in Dodge trucks. It may require a different cam setup though. Just something to think of.

Blake

Blake is right you don't have to run the engine to maximum speed and in fact Cletrac did not.  My Hercules manual lists the DJXC 298 cu in from 1936 to 46 at 83 Hp at 2600 rpm with max torque of 208 lb ft at 1500 rpm. I think the max speed for the BD was about 1500 rpm, when they used it in the OC 12 they set the speed up to 1750 rpm.  For the tractor you need an engine with the same torque over the RPM range you are going to use.  Using a larger engine at a slower rpm give better engine life than using a smaller engine at higher speed. I don't have any data on the D298 but being that it is the same displacement I would think it would work quite well with the speed reduced to the range of the original engine.

Sam That DD 298 is the easiest to find parts for. The expermental 580 Cockshut had one of the first 354 Perkins in it. I never asked but the speed of all the other Cockshutts at that time was 1650. A 354 does not run the same speed in an Oliver as it did in a combine. You would need to get the pump set so that the torque build up is good.

Sam : I missed a word. The DD 298 is NOT the easiest to find parts for. Sorry about that.

I have been thinking about trying to put a 371 Detroit Diesel in a B cletrac. I just think they sound cool.

Quote from: "Bob"I have been thinking about trying to put a 371 Detroit Diesel in a B cletrac. I just think they sound cool.

Ooooooo Bob, DON'T do it! Just go for another ride on  your snowmobile and you'll get all that noise you need 8)

Blake were you awear of the fact that Rollin was working on a prototype two stroke diesel to put in a Cletrac. First model was to have been a 30.

Quote from: "John Schwiebert"Blake were you awear of the fact that Rollin was working on a prototype two stroke diesel to put in a Cletrac. First model was to have been a 30.

Yes John, I know he had a lot to do with the development of the 2-stroke diesel. I'm not sure if we had talked about this before or not - might have to do a search. I may have some info on my Cletrac history tapes too.

I'm not sure if Rollin actually developed the engine that GM went on to use, or if there is a connection with Winton in Cleveland. Didn't GM buy out Winton and then it later became EMD?

We should probably start another thread on this discussion in the history section.

Blake