DD won't start

[Ralphie]

I have a DD crawler with Hercules 6 cylinder which I have used on our hobby farm. It has been sitting idle for 18 months after a small tree came up thru the rear pinning my leg to the clutch and entering my leg to the bone.
I have tried starting it recently without success, in the past I have always used a squirt of ether in the air cleaner but even this won't even make her fire briefly, although fumes come out the exhaust. I have bled the fuel system, cleaned the filters, had all the injectors out and cleaned them, checked the valves are operating, but still no action. When I had the injectors out and turned the engine over there was a small amount of water vapour came out two of the cylinder injector openings, but I put some water dispersent down there and can't get anymore vapour out.
 It was working fine when I injured my leg and has always been very reliable, just needing a spray with the ether can to get her going.
 I was going to check the compression readings of each cylinder, does anyone know what the compression reading for this engine should be ?
 I would welcome any suggestions to try and get the old girl mobile again. Thanks also for this great forum, what a sensational idea to assist in keeping these old machines running.

[Blake Malkamaki]

I doubt anything changed in sitting for 18 months, so I would doubt anything such as timing, injectors, valves, compression or such would change. I have had tractors sit for years and nothing changes, especially diesels.

When you are cranking it over with the throttle open, does it smoke from the exhaust? If so, it sounds like it's getting fuel. If not, maybe there is a problem with your throttle linkage or something is hung up somewhere. Or your filters are plugged.

If it is smoking and getting fuel, you know that it has at least some compression, so it should start with a little ether. Be extra careful with the ether though as I have seen crankshafts broken with the stuff.

You might want to check for freaky things like a mouse nest in the air cleaner. Also make sure there's no water sitting at the bottom of your fuel tank.

There really is not much that can go wrong with a diesel since all you need is heat from compression and fuel.

Maybe some others will have some ideas. Good luck.

Blake

[Ralphie]

Thanks for your reply Blake, yes fumes come out the exhaust whilst cranking it over but it won't fire.
Someone told me to drain both the crankcase oil and the radiator coolant, heat them up and put them back in and then try it. Do you think there is any future in trying this ?

[Blake Malkamaki]

I can't see where this is going to be a big problem. How cold has it been there? I don't think I would bother to drain the oil or coolant.

We have started stubborn diesels when it is down around zero out by putting a kerosene torpedo heater under them and making shields from plywood to keep the heat in. It may take several hours to get the engine warm.

You could also install a block heater if you are going to use the tractor a lot when it is cold out.

I have also heard of people heating the intake manifold with a propane torch prior to starting.

[peter de vries]

Sounds to me like the motor isnt getting fuel, or enough of it. I own a dd cletrac and 3 ddh cletracs with the drxb diesel motor. a common problem that i have had with these motors is that after sitting for some time they have a passion for sticking one or several of the injector elements in the injector sleeves. When you start cranking the motor over the cam in the fuel pump lifts the injector pistons, but once over the top of the injection cycle the piston remains jammed in the bore against the return spring tension. this means the motor can only fire on several injectors or even none as i found in one case, and no amount of cranking will ever start the motor untill the elements are un-jammed. you should also check to see it the injector rack is moving as the throttle lever is moved. these can also jam up with lack of use. to check both of these it is a simple job to remove the side plate off the injector pump, and see if the elements are following the cam or stuck at the top of the stroke.DRXB diesels can also be a bugger to bleed, and once air gets into the system it can take LOTS of cranking to get fuel back thru the injector lines. Be very careful to remove air from all of the fuel filters first and then from the fuel pump. If you still have probs i can contact you directly as i am in Australia (Tasmania) also. Hope this helps, regards Pete.

[Blake Malkamaki]

Does it try to fire at all on the ether? It should fire on it even if there is no fuel present. Maybe the ether is no good. Just a quick early morning thought!

[Ralphie]

Thanks for the advice Pete, 4 Cletracs wow..! sounds like your the man I've been looking for in Australia, thanks to this great website.
I will try your suggestions over this coming weekend. I have taken the injectors out and then hooked them up again to the fuel line outside the block. They are all pumping fuel but as you suggest perhaps its not enough, although I would have thought it would at least give a firing splutter on the squirt of ether down the air cleaner, but the only signs of activity are fumes out the exhaust.
My dozer is a DDH with a Britstand hydraulic blade.  Pardon my ignorance but the DRXB diesel you refer to , is that the Hercules 6 cylinder motor that would be in mine ?
Do any of your DDH's have rippers ? I've been trying to figure how I would engineer something and so far the only answer I've come up with is to have 2 small rippers hinged on the rear of the dozer blade so that when travelling forward that swing up out of the way but when reversing they swing down and rip the soil
Thanks again for your help, will let you know how I go.

[Ralphie]

Blake, no it doesnt try to fire and yes I would have thought the same. I was using an old can that I had from 18 months ago and I also thought it may be no good so went and bought a new lot, but still the same no firing result. Thanks for your early morning thought ..!

[John Schwiebert]

If you took the injectors out and hooked them up on the outside and they spray the fuel pump is pumping. Now in theory the governor should move the rack to full fuel position.  There will not be much fuel on each shot. Now I need to think a little bit. What model pump and governor do you have? How is your cranking speed? Do you have a voltmeter?

[Carl Besola]

Hello folks, Carl B. from da U.P. here. I don't know anything about the Herc. diesel since my Cletrac's a gasser, but what he's describing almost sounds like it's not gettin' any air! So what I'm wondering is does that engine have an emergency shutdown like a Detroit? Something that shuts the air passage off? Perhaps when the poor bloak got injured, in the confusion that may have ensued someone may have shut the engine down with that rather than the fuel shutoff. I've seen that with Detroits and if you don't know about it [like me when it first happened] it can be frustrating. I had to call my brother in-law [retired Detroit mech.] and ask him! He told what to look for and away we went! Just a suggestion, fuel, oxygen, and a kindling point ya know! Good luck Carl B.

[Blake Malkamaki]

Lack of air would certainly do it. If it won't fire on ether and it HAS compression, the only thing out of the mix is air. No matter what the fuel system is doing and whether or not it even has fuel, it should fire on ether.

[Dave Peters]

If you have adequate compression and the fuel is getting there it could be that the temperature of the air is very cold. When I used a B dozer in work in the early '60's we found the easiest way to start the herc diesel was to remove the large plug on the manifold and hold a rag soaked in diesel in a pair of pliers and then lit and held over the  the hole while the engine was being cranked. always worked in the end. used ether in the summer though. Herc diesel was always a poor starter and sounded like a bag of nails until it got work to do, then it went well and sounded good.
Hope this helps, DAVE

[Ralphie]

Thankyou all for your suugestions.
 John, the fuel pump is American Bosch Corporation with a Hercules governor. Cranking speed is excellent and I check voltage with a multimeter.
Carl, no emergency shutdown on the cletrac and I've checked the air passage from air filter to intake manifold and all is clear.
Dave, I have in the past taken out the big plug on the manifold and warmed things up with a gas torch and it assists starting ,but not this time.I'll keep the rag idea in mind.

[peter de vries]

The DRXB is the standard diesel engine fitted to the DD Cletrac. There was a petrol variant also available and that was called the DG Cletrac. I have a blade mounted ripper on my main machine. I welded some large lugs onto the blade and mounted a Caterpillar single point ripper onto a home made swing away mount. it swings up in reverse and flips down to rip in forwards. It is nothing special and was knocked up one afternoon so i could rip the trench for my underground phone cable.I have some photos somewhere of a more elegant rear mounted hydraulic ripper for an OC12 Oliver.Tha main machine i use is a DDH Cletrac with a Brittstand hydraulic blade and Brittstand winch.Another DDh with cable blade and winch, A bare DD Cletrac and a DDH partially stripped for parts to feed the others.