New Cletrac owner with questions

[racerjim]

Hi all,

I really like your website. I recently acquired what I believe to be a late 40's Celtrac HG crawler that I am considering restoring. There is no ID plate that we can find on the motor but did find the engine plate which shows the engine serial number as #1265931 and is a hercules IXK3 model with the babbit bearings. We have disassembled the frozen motor and it looks to be in pretty bad shape internally with rusted liners and crank but the external components on the motor look ok. The rest of the crawler looks to be in decent shape and it's pretty complete. Even has the original front grill. The rear drive wheel bearings are pretty worn and the left side wheel had the mounting bolts back out and do some damage to the wheel itself. the transmission looks to be in good shape.

My question is how tough is it to source a running or rebuildable IXK3 or IXKB motor? I'd like to keep it original if possible with another hercules motor. I assume the rear wheel bearings can be replaced even if the bearing carrier needs replacing also? I'm in Southern California near Los Angeles.

[Orangeman]

Racerjim:

Couple of things to consider:

The IX series of engines were used to power small boats, some welders, generators and power units. I am on the east coast and the hercules engines are expensive to work on.  

I have seen some pretty good replacement engines using international, allis and mercedes benz diesels used when the hercules was shot. Cheaper cost wise to secure.  You would need to use and adapter plate between the bell and the engine to couple up.  Good luck on this project, nice looking machine.

[Bob]

Blake and I were talking last night about the IX series engines. I think they are all interchangeable as a whole. Some parts off one might not fit another, but the bellhousings are the same. Blake knows more about these than I do and hopefully he will comment and shed more light on this. One thing I do know is that parts are expensive.

Your tractor looks to be in pretty nice shape as a whole. It sure is worth fixing!

[Blake Malkamaki]

The HGs and OC-3s all used the Hercules IXA-3 (3x4 in), IXK-3 (3.125x4 in), or IXB-3 (3.25x4 in) engines. I believe these are all interchangeable, but they are NOT interchangeable with the IXB-5 engine. The difference between the -3 engines and the -5 engines is the number of timing gears in the front of the block. Bellhousings and starter and distributor locations are also different. Cletrac and Oliver used only the -3 engines.

Blake

[racerjim]

If I can source an 1XB motor can I use my magneto, carb, manifold, flywheel, etc? I understand the IXB has a water pump too?
Will the 1XB bolt to my HG bellhousing?

Thanks for the responses.

[Blake Malkamaki]

I believe it will work as long as it's an IXB-3. The -5 should have the same manifold and carb, but I don't think it will bolt up to the bellhousing.

Blake

[John Schwiebert]

Well I think you have the best situation here. If you buy an IXB engine take it apart and measure up everything in both engines. You did not say if your IXK is standard bore and if the crank is standard or not. Babbit mains would be a  plus as you can grind the crank if it needs it and then have the mains line bored to fit the crank for probably less money than a new set of insert main bearings. I have a friend and they were dealer for years and they would take the IXK engines and bore out to IXB engines. If  you are going to use it much it will need a water pump then. More questions?

[Gazer61]

I guess that last post answers one of the things that I was wondering, can an IXK motor be bored out to the same diameter that an IXB is bored to (3.25+.06)? I don't know if it would be a good idea to use them but I have 2 sets of STD pistons for an IXB that I do not need. I would let 1 set  go for the price of shipping. I have rebuilt 2 of the IXB -3 motors and it cost me around $1200 per motor for just the parts , but if I had it to do all over again( knowing the cost) I would still stick with the original equipment. I think that your tractor looks like it is in pretty good shape, definitely worth fixing. How bad was the motor stuck? The last motor I had bored out took .04 over to clean it up, it was also stuck when I got it. Post some more pics of the inner motor if you can.

[oliverchris]

I am sure you will find that the bell housings are interchangeable between IXKs and IXBs in that they will bolt up to the engine. However, there are slight frame differences. I am sure Landis told me that the IXK bell housing will bolt-up to a later frame but NOT vice-versa. The frame is a teensy bit wider meaning an IXB bell housing will have to be forced into an IXK frame a bit. Please check with Landis Zimmerman on that one though.

I have certainly used an IXK bell housing on an IXB engine without any problems but it then went into a 1947 HG.

[John Schwiebert]

First of all there are at least 3 different frame designs. Plus there were field kits to convert tractors that had problems to the later improved frames. Later frames are slightly thicker. I will need to do some reading. Also we need a picture of your frame or is it a welded or a riveted frame.

[racerjim]

My Frame is a riveted one. I just bought another HG that may have a good motor and better drive train but no sheet metal or gas tank. I've just about got my 1st one all apart now and may try to fire up the 2nd one to check the motor out as it looks pretty good.

[Oliver_collector]

2 places for information and part are Bechtold Tractor Service in Lodi, CA //http://www.bechtholdtractor.com/ and Zimmerman Oliver-Cletrac in Ephrata, Pa //http://www.olivercletrac.com

[racerjim]

Our solution on the engine was to buy another HG with a good free motor and got it runnign again. now we are working on an issue where it does not want to rev to 1700 rpm. the motor dies off about halfway up form idle. we rebuilt the carb and put new points, condensor, rotor in the magneto, new spark plugs too. Timing is righ on when idling.

any suggestions?

[John Schwiebert]

Which carburetor do you have? Does your tank hava a sediment bowl? If you unhook the gas line at the carburetor Will it run a full stream of fuel for say five minutes? Does your carburetor have a drain plug? If so make up a manometer and see what happens to your fuel level when you open the throttle, What did you use to clean the jets in the carburetor? Is it a fixed or adjustable load jet carburetor? What kind of needle and seat did you use in the rebuild kit?