1945 Oliver-Cleatrac transmission; leak or usage?

ikasischke · July 21, 2012, 01:31:16 PM

My husband and I just purchased a 1945 Oliver-Cleatrac AG-6H.
We have put about 10 hours on the machine, which was purchased as a completely rebuilt machine.
So far it has been running like a dream; however, it goes through a LOT of transmission fluid. Poured 5 gallon bucket in twice now.
Either it has a leak, or it just uses a lot of oil.
Could anybody verify how much oil it should be going through? If it were a leak, where would we begin to look? This is all new to us.
Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
Irena and Mark

Doug424 · July 21, 2012, 09:47:37 PM

No way should it be consuming any fluid at that rate. Usually with an old machine, you will have a small amount due to leakage, but if the machine is in good shape, you would hardly notice it. You might have a cracked trans case if you are losing that much. If you get under it, you should easily see where it's leaking if you are losing that much. You have oil in the transmission & the finals on each side. If the finals leak, it would be seals at the sprocket shaft. You'll have to do some checking as there is no way that is normal.

ikasischke · July 22, 2012, 02:12:23 AM

Thank you for your quick response!

We didn't think it was normal, but had no idea. Will get my husband to have a look on his next set of days off and see if he can see anything.
If we are losing that amount of oil, even with a piece of plywood underneath, you would think you would see where it is coming from.
What is the oil capacity of the transmission?
Thanks again.
Irena

Blake Malkamaki · July 22, 2012, 04:40:42 AM

I wonder if they just worked on it, if someone didn't put enough oil in the transmission in the first place.

Doug424 · July 22, 2012, 07:16:42 PM

Transmission capacity is 8 gallons. What type of oil are you using? You should use the correct oil, being a straight mineral oil. Newer gear oils have additives that are not correct for the brakes used in these machines. Also,, the way the oil is filled in these machines,, it gets filled at one point, the transmission, then when it gets filled , it flows into the finals. So, if your finals were low, it might give the impression you are losing oil at first. Did you check the level at the final drive plugs? When it's up to level there, you have everything filled. So, if you added 10 gallons,, it's either overfilled, or you are losing it somewhere.

ikasischke · July 22, 2012, 08:26:49 PM

That is very valuable information Doug 424

The fellow we bought it from used to work for Cleatrac way way way back. An ol' timer. When we questioned him about the type of oil to use, he said 85-90 gear old GL5 would be fine.

We live in Canada, so the products up here might be different.

Where are the final drive plugs? and how does one check them??? How do you tell if the transmisison is full or low on oil??? There is no dipstick that we can see.

Like I said this is completely new to us

Blake Malkamaki · July 22, 2012, 11:38:53 PM

You should use Non-detergent 50 wt motor oil or equivalent. There is a plug on the back of the rear end just above the drawbar where you should check the level. If the original plug is there, it should take a 3/8" ratchet with short extension to remove.

Did the guy you bought it from work at the plant in Cleveland or for a dealership? If he worked in Cleveland, do you know his name?

Blake

Doug424 · July 23, 2012, 01:27:23 AM

According to my manual, the way to check it is at the level plugs on the finals. As I mentioned earlier, the trans fills first, then overflows into the differential & the finals. If you already poured 10 gals into it, you should be fine as long as you don't have a leak. The 10 gals is a bit hard to believe as it must have already had at least some oil in it, so either its way over filled, or you are losing it somewhere, but if your losing gallons of oil, it should be quite obvious. You should get yourself a manual,, it answers all these questions. The "instruction manual" is what you need. You often find them on ebay. Just try to get an original manual, as some of the reprints are pure garbage, you can barely make out the illustrations.

As far as the oil spec,, the GL-5 is wrong,, it has the additives for limited slip that you don't want in a Cletrac and you need an oil that is friendly to brass, which most GL-5 oils are not. The oil I used is a Pennzoil product: http://products.pennzoil.my/industrial/super-maxol.html It's available in different weights, as Blake said a 50 wt motor is about right. The manual calls for sae 60 or 70 for temps above 70.. and 40 or 50 for freezing up to 70. I think an 80W gear oil is about the same viscosity as 50wt motor oil. When shopping for oil,, you need to look at industrial oils more than the automotive. You won't find the right oil at an auto store, but you will at a oil distributor that serves industrial customers. As I recall, the right oil doesn't cost any more than the auto oils, it maybe even cheaper.

ikasischke · July 23, 2012, 01:39:11 AM

Doug,
Thank you for the information. I will most definitely look for one on EBay ASAP.
So then my only question is, is the oil resevoir supposed to be full or not? I assume not? 4
Do you think we should drain all the oil out of it and replace it with 50 wt? to prevent damage?
If that is the case, perhaps we have just been overfilling it.
Irena

Doug424 · July 23, 2012, 02:06:15 AM

No, not full to the top if thats what you are thinking. As far as draining it,,,,,,,,well in a perfect world you might want to do that, but in reality it isn't as if the oil you used would really hurt anything. Plus with oil being expensive, I don't think I would want to spend that much to replace it. Someone else here might give an opinion on changing it or not, but my vote would be no. I assume you aren't using this machine all day, every day? So, for occasional use I think what you have in it would be ok. One interesting point though,,, when I tear one of these old crawlers apart, its amazing how nice and clean all the gears & bearings usually are inside when I find a machine has the old style oil in it. I can tell by the smell & dark color it's the right stuff.

Blake Malkamaki · July 23, 2012, 02:23:52 AM

Does the oil that is in it now smell like automotive differential oil with hypoid additive? Sweet noxious smell? And when you drive the tractor now, how does it steer? If it has the hypoid oil and it takes a lot of effort to steer it, I would definitely drain the oil and change it. If it has the hypoid oil and steers ok, I would not change it now, but consider changing it in the future. The additives in GL-5 oil can ruin bronze parts, plus they may enhance the lubricicity of the oil, thus causing the steering lining to slip on the drums more than they should instead of grabbing and stopping the drums. This would cause more steering effort and could cause the ends to break off the bands.

Quote from: Doug424 on July 23, 2012, 02:06:15 AMDo you think we should drain all the oil out of it and replace it with 50 wt? to prevent damage?

Blake Malkamaki · July 23, 2012, 02:54:33 AM

Yes, you are correct about filling and checking. There is no tank - that is just a filler with a breather cap.

Blake

Quote from: ikasischke on July 22, 2012, 08:26:49 PM
Blake,

I am not sure of the work details, sorry. However, if I run into him again, I will be sure to ask and pass on the information to you.

So just to make sure I am understanding you. You pour the transmission oil into the tank at the front of the machine. It then flows into the tranny and down into the final drives. To check the oil in the transmission, you take out the original oil plug out at the drawbar at the rear of the machine, most likely with a 3/8" rachet with a short extension. If that is full, then you know the tranny is full and the final drives are full?!

So, then my second question to you is, is the tank supposed to be full to the top or not? My husband thought it had to full and hence he dumped more oil into it. If not, perhaps he has just over filled it. It seems to run fine ...... the oil just seems to be disappearing and the next time he looks into the tank, the level is back down.

Thanks for your help! Hopefully, I am not sounding too stupid :-

This is all a little confusing.

Irena

ikasischke · July 23, 2012, 02:58:19 AM

Steering is great! Nothing wrong there. if he pulls the levers, he can hack nuts with it.

At one point the clutch seemed to jerk and grab a bit, he topped up the oil and it was good. Is this normal?

We are using the machine to push stumps and level a piece of property to build a house on next year.

She works like a dream otherwise.

Thanks everyone!

Irena

Blake Malkamaki · July 23, 2012, 03:42:03 AM

I just uploaded an image to the gallery showing a cutaway view of a Cletrac A and the approximate oil levels in the transmission.

As you can see, the oil starts at the transmission and flows over dams built into the housing, into the differential compartment and final drives. Then is pumped back to the transmission.

The clutch is dry and does not use oil, so there should be no relationship between the oil level and clutch operation.

Blake

ikasischke · July 23, 2012, 04:57:13 AM

That is a cool picture! Clarifies the process 100%.
He is going to go out and take a look at the oil levels (finals) the next day or two.
This whole thing is starting to make sense now.
Will just keep asking questions, and see how it goes.
Thanks Blake.
Irena