Awesome Idea-but I've got some questions

[moeh1]

Forgive the enthusiasm and a ton of questions, I recently got my hands on an OC3 and I found this site.  I suffer the same overspeed problem since it has a blade on it.  I am interested in adapting it to John's solution.  Has anyone ever documented things further like dimensioning all the parts?  I would love to build this, but my machining help and the Oliver are about 100 miles apart, so trial and error stuff would be hard.  Mostly I am curious how to properly locate the 7/8" shaft for the clutch and also the plate you weld  into the bellhousing.
I also found the aux tran link, did John ever publish the second writing to describe mods to the Model A tranny?   Also, where did anyone come up with a Model A clutch fork?  Is the fabricated driveshaft ever documented.  How can I lay my hands on the article that has been mentioned here several times?I'm sure I'll be back with more questions, appreciate the patience and the help, this looks like an absolute dream setup.
Thanks,
Marty

[DaveInMI]

I bolted some angle iron legs on an old ixb3 block so that it would sit on end, flywheel up.  I stuck the model A transmission in the pilot hole of the crankshaft and measured from there.  I was afraid to take measurements from others just in case something about my parts were different.  I have lots of pictures. If you are interested I could e-mail some to you.  The fabricated driveshaft is real genius.  The results of this project are well worth the effort.

[moeh1]

Dave thanks for the reply.  I have no doubt that I will love it once I get the parts and the confidence to tackle it.  I don't have the luxury of the extra block.  I guess I have the biggest concerns around locating and welding the plate into the bellhousing, which I assume is a cast type material?  How did your weld turn out?
Right now I am gathering info and parts, looking for a reasonable A tranny first, since that might otherwise be a big expense.  I just helped my neighbor split his 9N with a Sherman overdrive tranny which is a somewhat similar set-up, so I have a little better feel for the plan.

[DaveInMI]

I used mild steel for the plate.  I used a welding rod recommended by the welding supply store for AC welder cast to steel.  Warmed the clutch housing on the wood stove and welded in short segments, alternating locations, and long waits between.  I think it turned out ok.  As part of the layout, I marked a template with ballpein hammer and poster board for the Model A bell housing.  That allowed me to locate the holes in the plate for the transmission.  It also allowed me to find the center of the large center hole which I bored by mounting the plate on a faceplate on my lathe.  John found that the distance from the machined surface of the clutch housing (not mounting rib) to transmission mounting surface to be 3ââ,¬Â.  If I remember right, mine may have come out slightly different.  I paid $100 for the first transmission and then I found one at an auction for $20.  Both turned out to be in about the same condition.  I used the $20 one.  E-mail me at daveinnmiXATXyahooXDOTXcom (remove capital letters and use appropriate symbols) and Iââ,¬â,,¢ll send you pictures, if you like.

[DaveInMI]

I just sent Blake a few pictures.  One more thing, I used two adapter plates-- one for the tranny and one for the bell housing.  I used 1/8" pins to index them during set up, machining, and drilling the 6 holes that hold the two together.

[moeh1]

Thanks for the replies.  I am not sure I understand 2 plates - did one get welded into the bellhousing, or did you use 2 in addition to that one?  I'll give you an email as well.  I wish I had more time to spare on this.....

[moeh1]

I finally got a tranny !!!  It came with throwout, bellhousing, clutch fork and rod, so I am well up the parts curve.  I have a crawler boneyard nearby so I can get an OC-3 bellhousing and keep my crawler together for awhile.  I have a few tranny questions John talked about mods but never described them in detail.  What if anything do you have to do to the tranny?

Also, I had another hairbrained idea after re-reading John's stuff, along with some great input from Dave as well.  John mentioned the trouble with the original trasco was the welded driveshaft, so you had to pull the motor to take it apart.  If you used Johns driveshaft, do you really need to go the 2 plate route, or could you bolt the tranny to the bellhousing directly and still get it out by removing the driveshaft?    I was eyeing the Model A bellhousing, wondering if I could get a plasma cutter and cut that housing near enough to the right spot to weld it onto a cut down OC3 housing and get all the bolt holes, clutch workings, etc. for no additional work, assuming I did the layout and cutting carefully.  That would leave me welding cast to cast.  Open to thoughts!

[jdemaris]

This is answer to questions I got via email about sealed bearings for the Model A trans. ,  necessity of using two plates for mounting, etc.  I've included the original query, and my repsonse.

 Original Query:  am tyring to follow your advice on the aux tran project.  I am exchanging emails with Dave in MI, who has sent me alot of great advice so far.  I'm just getting started, been collecting info and parts so far.  I know where to get a replacement bellhousing, so I don't have to idle my Oliver to start and I'm only out a bit of money if I accidently don't get something right.   I just got a tranny, which I've been disassembling, it seems to be in good shape.  I think I saw  where you replaced bearing with sealed types.  Do you have good numbers for the front and rears?

The other tranny mods I am aware of are bending the shifter and cutting away most of the tail section around the u joint.  Are there any other reccomended things I should do now?

I had one really tough question also, you or George Gibby may be the ideal resources to ask since you both also got a Trasco bellhousing.  If I fabbed a revised bellhousing, but only used 1 plate ( adjusting dimensions accordingly) and bolted the tranny to the housing, would it fit in as one piece, if I went with your fabricated driveshaft?  Or am I just asking for too much good luck.

Appreciate any advice.

My reply: Here are some bearing numbers:
 
I bought mine from NAPA, but you can get them many places.  NAPA is not cheap, but I was lazy at the time.  I give the part numbers that appeared on the boxes as well as the actual numbers on the bearings.
Model A trans: New sealed output bearing is box # SKF 6306-RSJ or on the bearing - MRC 306SZ The old unsealed output bearing was New Departure Endee 3306

New sealed input bearing - # on box: CR 6208-RSJ actual number on new bearing: SKF 6208-RS1 (or R51). Old unsealed bearing was: New Departure Endee 3208

As far as using two plates for transmission mounting - I cannot think of any other way to do it if you want to be able to remove/install the Ford transmission independent of the bellhousing.  I wanted the transmission to be removable without removing the bellhousing.  Most setups have the transmission bolts coming through from the inside of the bellhousing on original Ford Model A cars and on the Trasco-Oliver setup, so in order to remove the trans, the entire bellhousing has to be removed - or the engine - to access the hidden transmission mouting bolts.  The problem is, that unlike many automotive transmissions that have exposed ears that mounting bolts pass through, or thread into - the Ford Model A trans HAS no ears.  It is drilled, tapped, and threaded for bolts that come in from the inside of the bellhousing. So, I bolt a plate TO the trans using the original threaded holes in the A trans.  But, the plate I attached has its own exposed mounting holes on the outside corners, just as most automotive transmission do.  Basically, it acts as a converter plate, thus putting mounting ears on the Model A trans.  With the way I did it, with two plates, I have the four bolts and nuts holding the transmission in, all exposed and easily removable. I suppose you could have just a single plate welded to the bell housing, have it drilled to line up with the threaded holes in the A trans., and then have to install - or remove - the Model A trans and the bellhousing as a unit.  Seems silly to me.  Same goes for the way the Oliver-Trasco kit modifies existing driveshaft parts, by welding some of them together.  Once installed, that driveshaft is also NOT removable without a lot of work and/or damage.  Again, the way I've done mine, I can remove the driveshaft in a few minutes, the same goes for the Model A transmission.  Putting a new clutch in would probably take and hour or two.  Another thing the Trasco kit did - and I did NOT - is to modify the input shaft of the Model A trans to accept the splines on the original Hercules-Cletrac clutch disc.  I left my Model A trans original and use a Ford Model A clutch disc instead.  It is the same diameter, and probably cost less.  There are many companies that sell brand new, reproduction 9" Model A clutch disks, they are reasonably priced, and come with a modern spring-loaded damper.  You JUST have to install the new disk inverted - i.e. make sure the side of the disk that is marked "this side out" is installed backwards - facing in instead.  It just happens to fit perfect that way with the Hercules flywheel.

John de Marrais