OC3 Cooling System?

Cplwill · June 24, 2010, 03:38:59 PM

The OC3 I bought has no water pump in the cooling system. The previous owner however, installed a 12 volt pump inline with the lower radiator hose. Is there a problem with these machines overheating? Do I need to keep the 12 volt pump? The problem I have is with no charging system the pump is draining my battery. I do plan to fab up a bracket and install a 12 volt alternator some time in the future. Just wondering if anyone has had any problems similar to this? Also has anyone installed/added a temp gauge on their machine that didn't originally have one? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

John Schwiebert · June 25, 2010, 12:43:42 AM

Something is fishy here. All OC-3 tractors had a water pump from the factory. Late model HG tractors had a water pump. On the left side (side opposite the manifold) in the center of the engine block near the top the serial number and the model of the engine will be stamped in the block. Look that up and post it here.

Cplwill · June 25, 2010, 06:54:09 AM

Well, after locating the engine data plate and running the #'s all over the web. My engine is a Hercules IXA-3 used in HG's from 1939 to 1951. Both the data plate behind the mag and the stamping on the block match. So I either have a 1956 OC3 with an earlier engine or an early HG with the incorrect data plate.
As for the cooling system the IXA, IXA-3, and many of the early IXB OC3 engines used a Thermo-Siphon system, which used the difference between the temperature of the radiator and that of the engine to circulate the water. Therefore many Hercules engines used by Cletrac and Oliver do not have water pumps.

John Schwiebert · June 25, 2010, 10:04:04 AM

Look at those service bulletins I have posted, it will list the first serial number for the HG with a factory Water pump. Now the IXA engine was only used in 1939 or maybe 1940. What is the tag number for the OC-3 part and what is the engine number that you have?

hotratz · June 25, 2010, 01:01:46 PM

Cplwill, The undercarriage on your crawler screams "HG" What does the grill look like?

John Schwiebert · June 25, 2010, 07:53:55 PM

I don't know where you looked on the web but that is why I take a lot of this stuff like no IXB engines were thermosiphon cooled. All IXB engines used in those little crawlers HG, OC-3 and the 4 cylinder OC-4 four cylinders had a water pump. Do you have a picture and an engine number somewhere? I am old enough to remember when the OC-3 crawlers were new.

Cplwill · June 25, 2010, 07:59:33 PM

Well, here is all the info I could find on the Engine. [attachment=2:qp9z80r6]002.JPG[/attachment:qp9z80r6]

Cplwill · June 25, 2010, 08:05:04 PM

Here is the info on the crawler itself. No plate anywhere on the frame only the bell housing. Attached are some pics.

Cplwill · June 25, 2010, 08:33:05 PM

Sorry for the miss information on the IXB engine, got that info from another "Expert" on a different Forum. Its to bad that the proper info and specs are not posted somewhere for easy identification, it would save a lot of time and frustration.

oliverchris · June 26, 2010, 03:15:42 PM

Sorry, I should have read all of this thread before replying to your earlier one...

Wow, you really have a mystery. An OC3 Industrial bellhousing from the early to mid 50s (incidentally OC3 bellhousings are very slightly different diameter to HG bellhousings) attached to an engine block from the late 30's or from 40 on a machine from late '39 or the 40's. But no frame tag seems to suggest your machine is from the mid to later 40s.
As I mentioned in your other thread, check out the way the finals are held to the rear frame and transmission area. Maybe take a photo for comments.

It is even possible that the engine tag is a 'red herring' taken off another engine, so check that date cast in the block behind the mag for the casting date. I read somewhere that machines left the factory about 6 months after the casting date. Your engine might even be an IXK (HGs had them though much of the 40's)...don't assume the obvious with these older machines. Hercules made IXAs, IXKs and IXBs for all kinds of other machines and gensets, and many of them end up swapping to other uses during their lives. I have two OC3/HG machines that have Hercules IXB or IXK genset engines.

You can retrofit a water pump to an IXA I think. You can with the later IXK anyways.

John Schwiebert · June 26, 2010, 04:58:57 PM

On your engine, IF the serial number and model number stamped in the block are the same as on the tag then that matches. On the bell housing. When the service bulletin was issued about the change in location to move it to the bell housing it also said make sure that if the bell housing and or the engine with bell housing was ever changed from the crawler itself, make sure you make the necessary correction. Do you have better pictures of the crawler itself? Two I want to see are the front idler, the main frame and perhaps the seat itself. You also mentioned I think something about a temperature gauge. I need to check. Also your carburetor is not original for that engine. What model starter and generator do you have? How many studs hold your rear sprockets on and what size are they? Also how about a picture of the bearing cap on the end of the axle?

hotratz · June 26, 2010, 05:06:56 PM

John, There's a good side picture of the undercarriage above that shows the front idler and track frame. ^^ Also the grill is the HG style

oliverchris · June 26, 2010, 06:40:46 PM

One small clue looking again at these photos...most or many Hercules IX gensets I have seen have metallic green or blue-ish paint. This bellhousing has metallic paint whereas the engine and rest of machine does not! My guess therefore is a bellhousing and clutch housing that came from a genset, was then put into an OC3-42 IND and THEN into this HG...
Mad I know, but it fits the evidence :roll:

Cplwill · June 26, 2010, 11:19:39 PM

Thank you for all the info. I believe this is a 1940 HG with a donor bell housing from an OC3. The engine #'s are IXA3 A676889 with the casting date of 2 29 40. These #'s are both on the plate and stamped into the block. No data plate on the frame but the frame is not sandwiched between the tranny and the drives. It is attached with U-bolts, attached is a pic of that area. After digging thru the layers of paint, the engine, frame, tranny, and drives all seem to have the same color original paint ( a dullish yellow). The bell housing that has the OC3 data plate has a lighter green original paint.

John Schwiebert · June 27, 2010, 12:25:47 PM

Well first of all the bell housing has been repainted. All OC-3 tractor at the time of your serial number were YELLOW. A friend of mine father was a dealer and sold those little crawlers in good numbers. I will ask as I will be going past there Friday, but as far as that bell housing comming out of a gen set, maybe maybe not. Hercules made those little engines for at least 10 years after they were discontinued from the Oliver crawlers. I also have a 1942 Cletrac parts book and I will look at some items in there. I don't know when because if it does not rain today we have some serious farming to do this week. Can you send me some pictures? John