OC-3 update

[Jim W]

John,

Ok, this one has been modified and the intake manifold has been changed. Right now I do not have any of those parts and not sure what was actually done inside the injector pump. I noticed in older threads the fellow Anthony who made these changes was speaking with sone one named John, perhaps that was you?

Thanks for your input,
Jim

[Blake Malkamaki]

Jim, he probably decided not to use the intake manifold because it rises up about 10 inches or so to give the air charge a little supercharge due to velocity. If you can hunt around on Ebay or foreign car junk yards, you may be able to find an intake from an early 190D Benz - I think about 1962 that did not have the rise and velocity tubes built into the intake. I hope Anthony has the original parts for you though as you should be able to make them work.

[Blake Malkamaki]

Here's what the car looked like Jim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W110

[Blake Malkamaki]

Here is what the original intake manifold looks like:



or you can view the entire forum where I found the picture by going here: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x31/michiel2007/1351482419_136df8e37f_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.benzworld.org/forums/vintage-mercedes-benz/1495932-ponton-w110-200-diesel-engine-need.html&usg=__ovXZWqkLX1M7Fe8Dnbl8dFjGpqE=&h=682&w=1024&sz=213&hl=en&start=145&sig2=ZdYYLzhDNu89IeUkwPBSXA&zoom=1&tbnid=ogBNCDr189UnKM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&ei=iQcoUY3-CMGQ2AW5x4HoBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmercedes%2B200D%2Bintake%2Bmanifold%26start%3D140%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CDIQrQMwBDiMAQ

Blake

[Jim W]

Blake,

Thank you this is great help. I have reached Anthony by phone and expect to talk this evening about the project. I am hoping he kept some of those parts after seeing the above. Weather here has not been conducive to doing work even with the stove burning in the barn so not much done this week. If I can locate the manifold and parts the pump will need to be returned to original as well I am thinking. With out the vacuum pump I wonder how well the system would perform to. I wonder what intake is on here then as its nothing like pictured.

Jim

[Blake Malkamaki]

I don't think you need a vacuum pump at all. The vacuum pump is only for the power brakes on the car. The vacuum that controls the governor is derived from the manifold. Unlike most diesels, these have a butterfly in the manifold with a port strategically placed so a vacuum signal is created and is sent to a diaphragm on the back of the fuel pump. There is also linkage that goes to the fuel pump and to the manifold.

[John Schwiebert]

Get the model numbers off of the injection pump. Also where are you located?  You may be able to find a variable speed mechanical governor for that pump to replace the pneumatic governor. If I have that information I can check with a couple of my friends that do injection pumps. The kid that owned that engine lived about 20 miles from me.

[Jim W]

John,

The IP is a model PES4M 50C320 RS14. I did manage to find a complete one and purchased it in case I need the parts Anthony removed. I talked with him last week and he is checking for any left over parts as well. I am missing the butterfly but may have a source for one if Anthony doesn't find one. He plans to stop over soon to go over some things. I live near Swanton about 10 minutes from the airport. Perhaps you are not to far away? I am close to getting the radiator set up done so I can run it longer. There is a concern the IP timing may be off but I am not sure how to check that or set it. I managed to find an OM 621 shop manual on line and have it ordered as well. It should be easier to start than it is right now. Good news is Anthony had the trans opened up when he added the PTO, indicated to me the internals were in good shape as well as the steering bands. This PTO still has the original pulley as well. Feel free to get ahold of me direct if you want to.


Blake,
I found a source for the butterfly and even the intake that is similar to the picture you posted. I have the short intake on it now and could keep it if the butterfly I found matches the bolt pattern, if not I may have to get the other intake with butterfly attached.

What a great source of help this site is! I hope at some point I can do the same for others!

Jim

[Blake Malkamaki]

Jim, unless Anthony had that pump off, it should be timed properly. My Gramps timed it when we put that engine together. If my memory serves me, it should be 26-27° BTDC with no advance. That engine does have a centrifugal advance build into the timing gear at the front of the pump.

Maybe John would know this one, but I'm wondering if the vacuum governor on that pump is a load governor or an over-speed governor? If it's just a load governor, maybe it's not really needed and could be replaced by a throttle pedal, or a by installing a belt-driven governor?

If you can find a butterfly housing with the ports, you should be able to make a flange and braze or weld to whatever existing manifold you now have.

Blake

[Jim W]

Blake,

Anthony stopped by and we went over a lot, it was a nice reuinion for him with his old machine. Yes the IP had been taken off so verifying timming is needed. I now have the original manifold and butterfly and plan to use the butterfly on the short manifold already installed (it fits right on) I do not have the vacum line or linkages though so that task remains. He is going to dig around and see what he still may have. Waiting to talk more with John as well, as I picked up a used IP that is in bad shape but is pretty much complete. It will alow me to replace the vacum govenor and related parts removed from the current one. I need to understand the linkage set up on the this type motor to get an idea of what was connected to what, have not had luck finding pictures on the net. Perhpas the shop manual I am expecting may show it.

Did not get the radiator system mounted as I ran into a problem but now have that resolved and expect to have that done this week. Would like to get it running enough to move around under its own power. This orginally had the model A transmission modification in it and Anthony used it that way as well. He sold the motor and trans combo a while back (some one got a heck of a deal on that!) he said it performed pretty good that way and had even removed a stump of a large tree.
Jim

[Blake Malkamaki]

Looking at the above illustration, I believe there is only one line from the butterfly housing to the governor on the pump. This line comes off the top in the illustration. I think there is a lower port that goes to the valve cover for blowby scavenging. The vacuum line from the intake manifold went down to the vacuum pump to aid it in providing vacuum to the power brake booster.

The banjo fittings are the same as on the fuel filter and other attachments to the injection pump. Not sure where you get these if you don't have any extras, but probably any Bosch or foreign car dealer should have them. You can probably just use a stout vacuum hose between the banjo fittings to get to the governor.

The linkages are just heim joint and adjustable rods.

Blake

[Blake Malkamaki]

I guess they're not really heim joints, but spring loaded ball joints. The vertical linkage you see went down to a bellcrank which connected to the foot throttle. From the back of the butteryfly, the linkage goes over to a hinge where the idle speed adjustment ties in. From there another rod goes down to the pump.

I don't know why the heck he lost all that stuff - what was he thinking? That's the brains of the whole fuel system!!

[Jim W]

Blake,

Good info. I really need to see the other side of the set up then. Going to start checking junk yards for a 200d or 190d to see if I can find the linkages and set up. Anthony was going to check if he still had them as well. Motor shop manual arrived today so that may help with a few things. Timming is 26 degrees BTC as you recalled. The hydraulic pump is not original so not sure it will drive the cylinders properly or if I will have enough belt grab for it so once the motor is settled that project moves to the front. I did find today I have a roller broken in half so need to add that to the list. Will need a replacement roller and internals for it from the way it looks. Will need to talk with Chris and Zimmerman's it looks like.

Jim

[Blake Malkamaki]

Post some detailed pictures of the fuel pump side of the engine, showing the linkage arm that is on the pump now. I believe the linkage is pretty simple down there. Does your extra pump that you just aquired have an arm? When searching junk yards, the car just before the 200D is officially a 190Dc. Be careful as there is also a late 1980s series of 190D that is nothing like it. Not sure if the 200D has a lowercased letter after it or not. There is also a later 200D that looked like an early 220D of 1968 vintage.

[Jim W]

Blake,

OK will get some up, reviewing the shop manual for the motor I realized it would be best to put the original intake back on which is now done as well as the butterfly. Now I need to round up a vacuum line (those metric thread sizes are driving me nuts) and the linkages. I understand the set up now and perhaps can fab them based on info in the manual. The pivot arm though will be the tough one as the arm lengths are not the same so getting the ratio correct could be tuff. I do have the pivot mount though and have got it mounted to the valve cover. Did run it a little again today and moved it out and back in to the barn. Will need to get the gears figured out in the Mercedes trans, not sure I was in first gear but was in first on the Oliver and she really wanted to jump! Off to TSC tomorrow to see if I can find those pieces that fit the swivel ball joints, then thinking threaded rod will do the trick. This set up will allow the use of the original throttle control as well. Radiator is temped in place for testing only and to get the mock up figured out for fabrication of the steel mounts. Had a few nuisance oil drips but now down to maybe needing a new oil pan gasket.

Jim
Jim