Track issues/starting problems

[pushing42]

I just resurected my late Fathers 1941 HG 42 Cletrac and I was hoping someone could tell me the track adjustment tension. I threw a track resently and want to adjust it. I assume I can measure from the underside of the track down to a guide plate . I have read online 1 5/8 to 2" . Is that where I measure?
I also rebuilt the Carb which made a world of diffrence but am still have starting issues. It loads up very easly especially when I kill it in the middle of a push. It will however start over many attempts. I coverted it to 12 volt which is a great help but I know i'm taxing the starter. I have tried 3 combinations on the rotor by moving one tooth at a time and it will run in at least two of the settings. It runs amazingly well which no issues.  My next step is really finding TDC and aligning rotor. Any ideas on this as well?
Thanks.

[Paul Bianchi]

Welcome Aboard,

Track Adjustment - Its measured at the top of your tracks by using a straight edge laid across your tracks.  My HG instruction manual states that you run your machine forward until there is a grouser directly over the center of the rear sprocket. Then place a straight edge on the tracks so that the ends rest on the grousers over the sprocket and the front idler wheel.  Adjust the track so that the vertical distance from the straight edge to the top of the, midway between the sprocket and the front wheel, is 2".

TDC - There's a timing hole plug on your bell housing.  If your looking at your carburetor, the timing hole is to the left on the front of the bell housing.  Remove the plug and crank the engine until No. 1 piston is coming up on compression and align the "SPK" mark on the flywheel in the timing hole of the bell housing.  (Much easier to do with a hand crank than the starter)

 Timing for a Wico X Magneto  Remove the carburetor and magneto mounting bolts, then pull the magneto to the rear.  Rotation of the impulse coupling is counter clockwise and the rotation of the rotor is clockwise.  Looking at the distributor cap, No. 1 is in the upper right, cables 2-4-3 follow in clockwise order.  Before re-installing the magneto, make sure the rotor is correctly timed to drive gear.  (In the manual they show a photo of the magneto with the rotor cap removed.  Under the contact of the rotor, there should be a white line. There should also be a white line on the drive gear.  These white lines should line  up as the teeth mesh.)  Replace the distributor cap, and turn the Magneto/Governor coupling in opposite direction to its ordinary rotation, until the line line on the rotor shows in the center of the distributor cap window. If flywheel "SPK" mark is in the center of the bellhousing  timing hole , magneto coupling should align with drive.  Install magneto with the gasket on the engine. leaving attaching nuts slightly loose. Move the top of the magneto toward or away from the engine body to line up the white line in the magneto window and tighten nuts.  Install carburetor and throttle rod to engine.

Point Adjustment - .015 - .017 when fully open

Spark Plug Gap - .020 - .025

[Les Darsow]

If you give me a call, I think I know what the problem may be. I am in Minnesota. Call during the day.

Les
952-895-9759

[Paul Bianchi]

Les,

What do you think the problem may be with "Pushing 42's" HG?

[pushing42]

Thanks to all who replied with my track and starting problem. Les was a big help and still is and thanks to Paul I got my timing straightened out. The mark on my flywheel only had DC on it and there was two paintied teeth on my Mag that perfectly lined up with the raised mark on the rotor after I got it to TDC. I was off one tooth. I was telling Les that I got it down in a Creek bed at a steep angle and killed it. Starter  happened to go at the same time and had it rebult to 12 volt as I did the entire system.  FYI- When at a steep angle, all the fuel runs to the two front pistons. It would POP but not go! Could not re-fire until I jacked it up and leveled it out. It's in the barn now, 7 days later. On to broken pins and cracked intakes. It never ends. Thanks again. Dave

[ljcallahan]

Paul, just wondering if you received my previous messages.  - Laura

[Les Darsow]

Paul, I will tell you what Pushing42's problem was. But first a little story of my own. When you read it you will relate to Pushing42's problem.  I have an OC-3 that my stepfather completely dismantled and overhauled in the mid 1980's. He spared no expense, every bushing, bearing and seal got replaced if it needed it. It ran great. He got confined to a wheelchair shortly thereafter. The crawler sat in the polebarn, unused, until about 2 years ago. I had tried to get it started in later years, but it wouldn't start. It turns out that my uncle had been trying to get it started also. He took the mag cap off and got the wires back on wrong. I got that fixed, ckecked the carb, fresh gas, cleaned the points, and hooked up a 12V battery an gave her a crank. We got spark! My cable ends, cables, and 12V battery were in poor condition, but good enough, because I didn't have a 6V battery handy. But it started and ran great. I ran it around without a problem. I loaded it on my trailer and brought it home to replace the battery cables and all the hydraulic hoses on the loader. I took of the mag and carb, put in new points, and put a kit in the carb. All new cables with good ends, and a new 12V battery. I liked the way it cranked faster with the used 12V that I had in it. I hit the starter button and it cranked over even faster than before, (with the old cables and old 12V battery), but it wouldn't start. Nothing I did helped, choke, throttle, holding my tongue a certain way, nothing helped. It whirled over, but wouldn't start. I took the mag off and put it on the bench and turned it by hand. Good snap and good spark, check the rotor, timing marks lined up. Put the mag back on, make sure I am timed to #1. It still won't start. I know that it is flooding now because it is smoking. I listen as I am cranking, I cannot hear the mag snapping, I turn it by hand, it is snapping, with the starter, no snap. I removed the little clear window in the mag cap so I could get a better look at the rotor when cranking. Sure enough, when using the starter, the rotor  would just rotate around with no snap. I thought I now knew the problem. I called Zimmerman's. Harold told me that the mag impulse dis-engages around 225 RPM. I was cranking it too fast. Remember these systems were designed for hand cranking, or a 6V battery and starter combination. By using a 12V battery on a 6V starter, I was doubling the voltage and spinning it too fast. It started OK with the old 12V battery and old cables because I had enough voltage loss by the time it got to the starter. I went to NAPA and got an 8V battery and put on it. A couple extra volts to aid cranking, without going too fast. It started right up. Some smoke from being flooded, but she runs good again.

Pushing42 had a couple things going on at the same time. Because he couldn't get started, I think he changed the timing on the rotor teeth, and he was also cranking a 6V starter with a 12V battery. But he could get it started eventually. When we talked, I told him that I bet the crawler started just when you let off the starter button. He said that was indeed the case. When he let off the starter button, the starter slows down just enough to let the mag impulse catch and send spark at the proper time, and eventually you get gas and impulse and she runs. Pushing42 burned up his 6V starter by using 12V and cranking too much. He had it rebuilt as a 12V starter. Now his battery and starter are matched for the proper cranking RPM and he is running again. The charging system would have to be upgraded to charge the 12v battery, but because the mag generates its own spark, the battery is only needed for starting. A charge one in a while with a 110V battery charger will be all that is necessary.

These 6V starters are very spendy to replace. There is a 12V gear reduction starter available on the internet.

End of story.

Les

[hotratz]

That's some interesting information. I'm wondering if all the mags are governed like that. I have a 12V Optima battery, all new wire and terminals and mine starts like a dream. Hardly even gets one full revolution and it's running. On another thought, If the mag pulse disengages after 225 rpm how does it make spark to continue acceleration above that point?

[Les Darsow]

Hotratz, to clarify or muddy the issue, the snap of the impulse was to move the armature through the field coils fast enough to generate spark. Once running, it didn't need the snap anymore, it was turning enough RPM. While hand cranking, or battery, the mag is not spinning fast enough, or timed correctly without the impulse snap. I have a hunch that if you were to send 24V to the 6V starter, and it survived, it would start also, because the mag and engine would be turning close to idle RPM. The other part of the mag snap is to get the spark at at the proper timing spot. Was your OC-4 originally 6V or 12V ? I don't claim to know much about a magneto, but I sure learned a lot when I thought I could make a better mouse trap.

[Les Darsow]

Steve,
I remembered something after I did the the long winded post. My OC-3 also started perfect after I had installed the new cables and new 12V battery. It would start in about 1 revolution, before the RPM got spinning and the snap disengaged. I was washing it while it was running, and it died, finially got it started again. The next time I tried to start it is when I had the problems. I believe if your air, fuel, throttle, etc. are just right, it will start in 1 revolution, before the snap can disengage. But flood it like I did, and it will never start with 12V, because as soon as she spins up on 12V, no more snap. If you have a distributer, it will not care if you have a 6V starter and a 12V battery, you just need a resistor to step down the 12V to 6V for the points. That is how I ran my 55 Ford for years. That is why I thought it would work on my crawler also.

Les

[hotratz]

Thanks for the clarification. I was unaware that the snap was only a function of low rpm. My motor is freshly rebuilt with only less than an hour on it so it might be tight enough still to resist over speed starting. I'll definitely keep this in mind as it breaks in and by chance I have a starting problem. Oh yeah, my OC-4 was originally 6V.

[pushing42]

Hey Les,
After reading the post regarding my starting issues, I have to belive it's all about the air, fuel mixture when starting. After I rebuilt the entire system to 12V it cranks a little faster than it should but still fires. When I stall it in a push at 3/4 throttle it takes about 10-12 tries to refire at almost no throttle. Built up fuel is the problem because you can see white smoke (unburn fuel) come through the exaust. If I walk away for 5 minutes and let it air out it fires after 2-3 tries. I'm going to try and improve this problem somehow because I know the starter is not going to last like this. My intake manifold is not in the best shape and that also may contribute to the problem. If I have it ground there won't be much left of it and I'll have to breakdown and buy a new one from Zimmerman.  Tracks still and issue but I got a hold of weights for the back to offset the heavy blade and I hope it helps. Besides all this I have managed to clear a couple acres of Berry Briars and snags and have a couple of nice burn piles to light. See ya.