cletrac "AD" need advice

Bob · November 06, 2008, 12:48:26 AM

I have a parts AD engine that sounds similar to what you have. The block has a small crack in it. I have a DD the same also. I was going to just put a new sleeve in the DD and call it good. The sleeves come about .005" undersize and you hone them to fit your piston. We did 4 on my AD, turned out perfect.

I have broken alot of stuck and some quitk stuck engines loose with a piece of 4x4 hard wood and a big hammer. Just work it back and forth and it might come loose. I made a press thing to press the pistons out of the AD parts engine.

Bob

Robert Barbour · November 06, 2008, 04:29:40 AM

When installing new sleeves be sure you have the block clean, dirt between the sleeve and the block can cause broken sleeves or cracked blocks. One way to loosen up stuck pistons is to turn the block upside down, be sure it is well supported. Make up a strong solution of anti freeze. Buy some dry ice. This is frozen carbon dioxide, its temperature is -40. Put the dry ice into the anti freeze stir until it stops gasing off. Pour the cold anti freeze into the piston, wait 30 seconds and drive on the conecting rod with a block of wood and a big hammer. The cold anti -freeze with shrink the piston and it should come out. This works best if the block is in a warm room to start with. Be sure to wear good gloves and do not get any of the cold anti freeze on your skin. It will freeze you instantly causing blisters like a burn and just as painful.

Scott Vassar · November 06, 2008, 05:12:31 AM

I like both ideas. I would like to do the hardwood block on the top of the pistons though, as I dont want to bend the rods. the dry ice idea I belive may come in handy for the sleeves. my dad was a machinist & I watched him do something like this for shafts. he called it shrink fitting. he would heat a coller & cool the shaft . the coller would slide on the shaft somewhat easy. when the whole thing warmed up it would go back to the original size. only this I belive would be the opposite. the block being warm,the sleeve being cooled. I have had good luck in the past putting used oil/gas mix in cylinders setting & it on fire. I let it cook till it burns out,wick out whats left,then give the hardwood a couple good wacks with a mall. if it dont move do it again. this worked on an old farmall f-12 I had. also works well on old gas engines that have been on a rock pile for 60 plus years loose again.thanks guys.

Robert Barbour · November 06, 2008, 06:04:47 PM

Remember you have to drive the piston out the top of the block, as the piston will not clear the main bearing bosses. So you have to drive from the rod side.

Scott Vassar · November 21, 2008, 06:54:52 AM

when you guys remove & replace sleeves do you use any kind of a puller/installer tool? if so did you make it or buy one??? I got the engine out. I have to rotate the engine pan side up so I can get at the rods. I am wondering what surprises await me. when I drained the pan. 2qts of oil came out with 5gal of antifreeze. I'm crossing my fingers,"no rust or pitting on the internals. thanks, scott

John Schwiebert · November 22, 2008, 01:39:14 AM

Hercules sleeves fit tight like in real tight. Those sleeves were thick enough that they could be bored to take 60 thousands oversized pistons. Now on the antifreeze thing. I would pressure test the block and see if I could find any leaks. I would also pressure test the cylinder head as well. You may be better off getting the sleeves cut out at a shop with a boring bar and if the block is good install the new sleeves and fit them clearance wise to the pistons. More questions?

Scott Vassar · February 08, 2009, 05:46:57 PM

I got the oil pan off last nite. took off the rod caps on cyl 1&4. so far the crank look good. I think I may have to remove the crank as no. 2&3 rod caps have only 1 bolt each accessable for the cap bolts. any ideas? thanks, scott

Scott Vassar · December 24, 2010, 07:05:46 AM

well its been awhile since I last posted about my "AD" project. I am having a very hard time trying to get the pistons loose. I have tried about everything I can think of. I have never had an engine that stuck. I took the crank out so I could work on 1 piston at a time. still none will budge. what am I missing here?

thanks, scott

Blake Malkamaki · December 24, 2010, 05:42:31 PM

Quote from: Scott Vassar on December 24, 2010, 07:05:46 AM
well its been awhile since I last posted about my "AD" project. I am having a very hard time trying to get the pistons loose. I have tried about everything I can think of. I have never had an engine that stuck. I took the crank out so I could work on 1 piston at a time. still none will budge. what am I missing here? thanks, scott

Can you see a lot of rust in the cylinders? Sometimes it's better to come up than down depending on the rust situation and the position of the piston when it stopped. One thing I have used with single cylinder gas engines is hydraulic pressure. The valves have to be good and not leak. I adapted a grease fitting to the spark plug hole and pumped oil in with a grease gun. Lots of pressure can be developed so you can break things if not careful.

An idea with the diesel may be to machine a flat surface on a piece of 1/2 inch steel plate and drill holes for the studs. Drill and tap a hole for a grease fitting. Install this over one cylinder at a time, with some kind of gasket, and use oil pressure to push on a piston. If it is really tight, you could put some pressure on it and let it set a couple days, then a little more each day.

Good luck

Scott Vassar · December 24, 2010, 07:12:37 PM

blake, I cleaned the rust out of the cylinder I am working on both top side & bottom. I've put oil in the cylinder & lit it on fire several times to heat it up then wicked it out, put a hardwood block in & pounded on it w/a sledge. no movement. I built a small press on top the cylinder put a 1 inch plate on the piston then a 4ton hydraulic bottle jack on it ,pumped till I could no longer push the lever down, nothing. I have used the grease gun trick on a 12hp headless witte engine once. it works if the cylinder has some thickness to it. I'm concerned that the sleeve wont take the hydraulic pressure. that cylinder is half way down. I may try that on 3 of the cylinders but number 4 has a hole in the sleeve the size of a quarter in it. don't know what to do there. I got some pondering to do on that one. thanks, scott

Scott Vassar · December 24, 2010, 08:48:23 PM

I just happend to think that the grease gun trick wont work in this instance as this engine has the injector cup in the cut out of the sleeve. now what? scott

Blake Malkamaki · December 24, 2010, 09:32:54 PM

You would have to leave an injector in. Even if the oil pressure method did not push the piston out initially, it may at lease force oil down around the piston and rings to help loosen it.

Bob · December 26, 2010, 04:40:38 AM

What about leaving your 1" plate on the piston, and pounding on it with an air chisel with a flat punch? Maybe the intense vibration would help?

I used the grease gun trick on an old gas engine and it helped. I personally didn't pull the piston, but the guy who did said it came pretty easy. That paticular engine had been thru a fire years ago and had sit out in the weather ever since full of water.

Good luck and don't give up!

Bob

Scott Vassar · December 26, 2010, 09:15:55 PM

bob & blake, those are both good ideas. I'll give them a try. thanks, scott

Scott Vassar · December 27, 2010, 01:03:30 AM

bob, the air chisel worked great on the first piston. got it out. now I'm on to number 2. thanks again, scott