Starting 1918 Cletrac, carb & magneto?

Bre620 · February 24, 2016, 05:27:29 AM

Hello everyone David here,
I just picked up this cletrac (model W I think). I was told it is a 1918 and was running as recently as last summer. I'm having trouble getting it started thou. What is the starting procedure on these?

I have drained and put fresh gas in the tank.
Removed and cleaned the carb. The carb needs more work but it should work well enough to move the cletrac. I need to get it off my trailer. I'll revisit the carb work at a later date.

At this point it think I'm NOT getting spark. How can I test the magneto to be sure it's working properly. Should I remove it, take it apart and clean it? Any help here would be appreciated.

A far as the carb goes I need to source new throttle plates and I'd like to find new shafts as well. It looks like the plates are 1.25 dia. Do any of you know what plates and shafts I could use?

Thanks

BruceD · February 24, 2016, 09:44:27 PM

Bre620,

Easiest way to check a magneto for spark is to take one of the plug wires and hold or position it so you have a gap of aprox. 1/8" between the wire and the block and then crank the engine and look for a spark. Alternately you can take a spark plug known to work, attach the wire, and make sure the plug is grounded to the block. As you crank the engine you'll see a spark when the mag "fires" that wire/cylinder. To make the job easier you might remove the spark plugs to make cranking easier. If the magneto produces a "snap" or click as you crank you'll know that the impulse coupling is working. The impulse coupling holds the rotation of the magneto briefly while cranking and then lets the armature "snap" past the magnet as the points open to produce a spark.

If the mag produces no spark the most likely reason is corrosion on the points or an incorrect point gap. The condenser/capacitor may also be faulty, but if the machine ran within the last year this is unlikely. Moisture and corrosion in the cap and on the rotor may also create a no-spark condition. Most mags allow the timing to be "retarded" for ease and safety of starting. Additionally, some mags will ground out or kill the spark when the spark control is moved to the full retard/stop position. I would check the items that I've listed before you remove the mag. There may be a grounding switch of some sort attached to a terminal on the mag that kills the spark when the circuit s closed.

If you do remove the mag, you'll want to make sure that the motor is on TDC for the number 1 cylinder (piston at the top at the end of the compression stroke) and make certain you mark where the rotor of the mag is positioned. It should be pointing toward the wire/terminal for the number 1 cylinder. Make certain that you make a mark across the drive coupling halves so you can re-align them when you put the mag back on. Make sure you mark which wire goes where; the rotor of the mag is apt to rotate counter clockwise.

Good luck with your project. That is a very nice looking tractor. Keep us posted on your progress.

A note on unloading your tractor. DO NOT unchain it, back up rapidly, and then jam on the brakes. Many years ago my Dad tried this with a non-running Cletrac 35. The tractor did indeed roll off the back of the lowboy, but then continued to roll merrily out into traffic on a busy street. Luckily no harm was done.

Bruce

Bill Kycia · February 25, 2016, 01:39:36 AM

That is indeed an early W with a Weidly motor.The magneto advise from Bruce is correct.The carb is a Kingston,and is very simple,but very hard to find parts.I have model W and to start it I set at half throttle,pull choke all the way out and crank over twice. Push choke in and now start to crank.Some engines with weak compression are hard to start by hand cranking.Most times I use my E -38 to pull start mine.Hope this helps,GOOD LUCK ,and welcome to the world of Cletrac. Bill in CT.

BruceD · February 25, 2016, 02:05:58 AM

David,

Looking more closely at your pictures I see a spark advance/retard control on the front of the mag that would have at one time been attached to a lever. Check to make sure that this is not in a "stop" position beyond full retard. The reason for retarding the spark when you crank start an engine is so that the crank will be less likely to kick back when the engine fires. The piston is on the way down (beyond TDC) when the spark snaps. Once the engine is running the spark is advanced and the cylinder actually fires as the piston is reaching the top of the stroke. Momentum carries the rotation forward.

Bre620 · February 26, 2016, 08:04:53 AM

Bruce and Bill,
Thank you both for the great advice. The impulse coupling must be work as I do hear a "snap" or click. The information on the spark advance/retard control I didn't know, thank you. I'll give it another try this weekend and but your advise to use. Fingers crossed!

David

Richard Borgaro · February 27, 2016, 04:35:00 PM

Hello David; glad you are bringing this little Cletrac back to life. Your W was the 1000th one made, probably during the first year of production in 1919. If you don't have, you will need to get a parts book and operators manual for the W. Reproductions are available from Jensales.com or look for originals on E-bay. Your Weidely engine dato plate should have the engine # stamped on it. There should also be a raised casting date on the differential, below the seat. From your phot. I can almost read the raised casting date on the engine, behind the magneto. It looks like 4•30•19. Sometimes they are upside down. VERY GOOD advice from Bruce and Bill. Some advise from me; take of the breather tube from the water air clarifier, so you can see if the engine gets flooded when you try to start. Always put up on the crank to start, as you pull up, the impulse starter should snap. After it snaps, pull up again until it snaps.keep doing this one pull up at a time. Once stated, make sure you have oil pressure on the gauge. It not. STOP!!! and determine the problem. Hope to see this Cletrac at one of the 100 year Anniversary Shows across the country this year. Post some photos on Blake's Facebook site. Good luck, keep us informed about your progress. Richard

BruceD · February 27, 2016, 11:38:20 PM

Oh yeah... And keep your thumb on the same side of the crank as your fingers. In other words, don't wrap your hand around the crank, just "hook" it with your fingers.

Bre620 · March 29, 2016, 12:10:38 AM

Well i had to push this off the trailer as I've had no luck starting this cletrac.

I'm starting to think this cletrac was not running last summer. Anyway, I tested continuity thru spark wires and thru distributor cap. It's there. Just no spark from the mag. I found the magneto to be a Bosch DU4. I may have to get a replacement or have it rebuilt. I did go thru the contacts and clean them all. I have a few more questions:

What are the gap settings in both the spark plugs and mag point?
Where is the condenser in the magneto and how can I test it?
Where is the hole I look thru for the timing marks and what do I line them up? To what? I only see marks on the fly wheel.
It seems to me the carb is getting some sort of back pressure thru carb. Gas is being push back thru the float check while cranking.

I appreciate the help and sorry the wait on the update.

David

Richard Borgaro · March 29, 2016, 03:26:14 PM

I would set the plug gap to .025 and the mag point gap to .015. Make sure that the mag points a very clean, not pitted. Check the strength of the magneto magnets. The condenser is probably hidden inside the mag. They rarely go bad, so I would check mag points and magnets next. Line up rotor in the mag to #1 spark plug wire contact on mag distributor housing, so the first cylinder from the radiator is #1 . The #1 cylinder (first from the radiator),should fire when the mag Mark on the flywheel is straight up at 12:00 o-clock. Do you have part book and operators manual. The operators manual will describe to way to time the magneto to the engine.