ag6 engine swaps-again

[joe brady]

jeep pickups and wagons 54-61 used the kaiser engine which was based ,I think ,on the continental 226. if the flywheel was changed  ( If it fit,with minor work and balancing ) would this engine then "bolt in"? In my other post, I had asked about the smaller 6 that jeep used prior to 54. this is a entirely different engine.

[John Schwiebert]

The kaiser is a 226 Continental. Does your wllys have anything stamped on the head like the word Huricane. What is the matter with your old engine?

[Sparky]

The Massy 44 tractor (very common) used the 226 motor and it will work fine, Also the Oliver combine used the 226 but you have to change the Gov if you use the combine motor.  Spark

[John D]

My AG-6 came to me with a Willys Super Hurricane engine that needed work.  I am currently in the process of replacing it with another identical engine I pulled out of a 1961 Willys pickup.  I have pulled the old engine out of the Cletrac, and am prepping the replacement engine to go back in.  I can confirm it is as straightforward a bolt-on replacement as youââ,¬â,,¢ll find.  

Continental Industrial vs Vehicle engines - Similarities & Differences:

The Willys/Kaiser/Frazer Continental F6-226 (for vehicles) has a downdraft carburetor (usually Carter), and the exhaust manifold exits downward.  So, the intake and exhaust manifolds are different, but the Cletrac manifolds will bolt right onto the block.

The Cletrac waterpump must be used to allow the fan to align properly with the radiator shroud.  This requires drilling & tapping (2) 3/8ââ,¬Â-24 holes in the block.  I chose to use studs rather than bolts.

Other cooling system notes: The vehicle engine has a heater outlet in the head between cylinders 5 & 6.  This can be easily closed with a 3/8ââ,¬Â NPT plumbing plug.  Use the Cletrac thermostat housing / coolant outlet on the top of the cylinder head between Cylinders 1 & 2.

The Continental F6-226 vehicle engine uses a timing chain between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear.  The industrial version uses 2 meshing gears.

The Timing / Governor housing [front & rear] also differs, but each bolts on as well.  The vehicle engineââ,¬â,,¢s front engine mount is integral with the rear of the timing chain housing.  Whoever converted mine made a dummy plate to close the governor opening, as the governor wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t operate with the timing chain.  I donââ,¬â,,¢t know what would be involved in swapping the timing chain & gears to use the Cletrac / industrial timing gears.  Since my tractor was missing the OEM governor, I decided not to try changing the current configuration, which utilized a military bolt-on governor instead.

The Continental F6-226 vehicle engine mounts directly to the clutch housing front cover on the Cletrac with existing bolt pattern.

The Cletrac flywheel is much larger and heavier, but bolts onto the engineââ,¬â,,¢s output shaft flange with the same bolt pattern.  Note that one bolt is offset by 1/16ââ,¬Â to ensure timing marks align properly.

The Starter is not an issue, as it bolts to the Cletrac clutch housing front cover, and engages the Cletrac flywheel.

Use the Cletrac generator bracket.  The vehicle engine has a split mounting bracket ââ,¬â€œ the front is integral with the front engine mount bracket (see timing/governor housing above).

Cletrac oil pan.  If I had it, I would have tried using it.  It is much heavier duty, and has the access screen for cleaning out sludge.  The vehicle engineââ,¬â,,¢s oil drain plug has JUST enough clearance to be removed.

I am including photos of the progress to date.  

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1ykcw/id11.html

[Blake Malkamaki]

John,

Since the vehicle engine uses a timing chain, rather than gears, does that mean the camshaft turns the opposite direction as the gear driven one? I guess that would depend on whether the gear drive train has an idler gear in between the cam and crankshaft.

If it turns the opposite way, then one could not use the Cletrac cam. And I'm sure the vehicle cam has much different charactoristics and would be designed for higher rpms. I know those Jeeps were low geared and ran 4,000 rpm quite regularly - at leasy mine did.

Could the whole timing train be changed to the gear drive design?

Just some things to think about...

[John D]

Blake,

You make a great point!  You must be correct about the camshaft turning the opposite direction in the timing chain version as opposed to the gear driven camshaft -- I didn't see an idler gear in the Cletrac book.

Does anyone know if the whole timing train could be changed to the gear drive design?

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post - the Cletrac timing cover rear housing plate needs to be modified to fit around the crankshaft - it seems to be in a slightly different position on the industrial engine (or is it just that the bearing is different?).  

My preference would have been to put the correct Cletrac / Continental engine into the tractor, but that option was restricted by availability and fiscal constraints.  


John

[John Schwiebert]

o. K. I enjoyed reading all this good stuff. First of all the vehicle engines are F 6226 and not F-226, same bore same stroke but set up for automotive use. For the gear drive you need a different cam, also a different distributor if I remember correctly, There is also an F-244 which will interchange. They were very popular fork lift engines although the 244 I have is out of an Oliver 40 combine. On the Massy 44 that Spark talked about you will probably be very disappointed as yes there was a 44-6 but 90% of them have a H model Continental 4 cylinder overhead valve motor. Also parts that have no affect on the  nunber of cylinders in the engine can be found in the four cylinder f-124, 140 & 162 engines. If you see an F-163 or F-245 they use a common flanged type thrust bearing so the blocks, bearings and cranks will not interchange. Other continental question feel free to ask. I have a friend who has been associated with Continetal as an engine distributor for almost 50 years. However I do not see him every week any more. They also run a rebuilding shop and have some funny used parts.

[John D]

I hope this discussion allows some of our members to get a non-running tractor crawling again.   Preservation and restoration are lofty goals.  Keeping them running is a practical matter.  

I would not have tackled my current rebuild project without the encouragement and support of members of this forum.

Happy Thanksgiving to all !

[Orangeman]

Hi Blake, John D. and John S.

I commend each of you on providing your information on the Continental 226.  I have a Dynahoe Model A that is equipped with a Continental 244.  Nice Engine.  Like John, I have been looking for a suitable donor engine as the 244 is a little tired.

I asked a question on the HCEA website about mobile equipment that utilized the continental flathead.  Jaeger Air Compressors, Galion Rollers and Clark Forklifts also used the venerable 226.

It might be useful for others that have 226, 227, 244 and 245 continental to develop a page of technical information on Continental engines that will work as swaps.... similar to what John noted earlier.  Maybe Continental Corporation has already compiled this information.  I dont have a crawler yet... but hope to be crawling along with you in April or May next year.  Snow is coming to northern New York as we speak, and we usually have five months of winter up here!  John D nice site, I really enjoyed it.  Orangeman!