Unusual Oliver ID, OC46 or Johnny Cash model?

ObsoElitist · January 15, 2015, 05:01:36 AM

Hi folks. I just brought home what I believed to be an early Oliver OC46. I have a background as a master auto tech, Journeyman machinist, and welder, with a lot of experience with vintage cars and trucks, European exotics, and some construction and mining equipment.
I am having trouble identifying it. I bought it a month ago and have been waiting for mud to dry to get into the field and recover it, looking at pictures and getting more confused.
The grill is not like any I can find on google. It has a 4 cyl gas Hercules engine stamped IXB3 with # 668215 with an "A" stamped between the # and the engine lines. It has no starter or external water pump. There appears to be no place to install a starter. There is an ammeter but no generator, and a battery was used with light wiring for the headlights but it has two switches and a push-button like a starter would need. I have not chased the under-dash wires yet. This is much different from the Hercules ZXB in one of my concrete mixers. The fuel tank is under the seat. It has a Ware 3HI loader, and an odd ripper bar lift with one cyl plugged and apparently used as a damper? The track system has 3 bogies per side and what must be an earlier front wheel. The hand-crank starter is also odd, since the hydraulic pump is in-line with the crankshaft, it has a gilmer toothed drive pulley under the pump shaft that transmits the power to the pump pulley, and then to the crankshaft through a coupler. This does not work, the coupler is not turning, perhaps a bad keyway or loose screw on the pump pulley. I'll figure it out after a good cleaning, but I can turn the engine by the fan and it feels OK. This has a 3+1 transmission, 3 forward gears and one reverse. The carb is missing, what carb is correct, and what else works?
I spoke to someone at Zimmerman's and he told me to find the ID plate on the sheetmetal on the dash, but nothing is there, and I cannot find anywhere the three rivet holes that would indicate where it was. I need to order manuals, please have a look through my photo album and let me know what you think I have here. It could be a mix of parts put together by someone with skill, , an early production or a prototype model, or just something the web is mute about?
Photo album is at http://s221.photobucket.com/user/arborigine/library/Oliver%20OC46#/user/arborigine/library/Oliver%20OC46?sort=6&page=1&_suid=142121484435306223292101472331

Bonus question, can anyone ID the trenching machine I got with it? And on the Johnny Cash theme, also on the trailer are doors from the Sacramento County Jail, not far from Folsom Prison.

Robert Barbour · January 15, 2015, 06:00:33 AM

I think you have an OC 3 that has had parts from an HG installed. The loader looks like a later OC 3, but the engine and front wheels look like HG parts. The OC 3 was the later version of the HG. The OC 3 predates the OC 4. The loader version of the OC 4 is an OC 46 and that is not an OC 46 loader. I don't see any OC 46 parts there at all.
Does the trencher fit on the back??

hotratz · January 15, 2015, 02:28:42 PM

The sheet metal, grill, seat, hood, dash, etc. appear to be OC4. The under carriage, gearbox and loader appear to be HG/OC3. OC4's have a 4 +1 transmission. The ID plate for OC4 is located under the dash, left side. If you look through my restore pics you might be able to Identify things that are OC4. My OC46 is an early version (1957). The grill on yours looks like the later version.

This is where the data plate should have been. Just under the left corner of the dash face where those three holes are drilled.

ObsoElitist · January 15, 2015, 09:58:46 PM

I just came in wet from pressure washing it. I still find nothing on the bell housing except a casting number #27469D. Does anyone have a photo of one from far enough back that i can see where the rivet holes should be? On the left side of the block under the deck is stamped IXB3, yet after removing lots of gunk and paint, the plate riveted on the right side identifies it as an IXA3, with the same serial number A668215, and Mr. Z says that is from 1939. Is it a fair assumption that the engine was bored out as an upgrade? It does appear that i have an HG/OC3 with the wrong body on it.

Robert Barbour · January 15, 2015, 11:46:43 PM

The IXA3 would make sense as that was used in the early HG. That is a 3" bore engine. The IXB is a 3 1/4" bore engine. I would not think you could bore it that much without hitting water!! But it could be bored and sleeved. All IXB3 engines I have ever seen were electric start. Anyway it is the mechanical parts that make a tractor, not the tin. The only OC 4 parts you have are tin.

John Schwiebert · January 16, 2015, 01:07:46 AM

The bell housing you have was only used on early tractors. OC-4 and 46 tractors have a bell housing where an auxiliary transmission can be bolted too as well. The IXA was only used about 1 year (39 as was mentioned) Then the IXK which was a 3.125 bore engine and was used till after the war. I agree the loader is not a loader for an OC-46. If you are going to use this a lot you will find you will also want the auxillary transmission as the 3 speed you have was designed for farming when your tractor was built.

Doug424 · January 16, 2015, 02:03:04 AM

The HG's and OC-3's that had the aux transmission had a special bell housing made by Trasco. The OC-4 & 46 bell housing was made to fit the direction reverser, and a rare option was a low speed transmission (I've never seen one) . The OC-4 & 46's really didn't need the auxiliary trans as they had a 4 speed main trans. (big improvement)

An awful lot of the OC-3's with loaders still only had the original 3 speed, which I agree is too fast, but they worked.

What you have there is one of the strangest combinations of new & old I have ever seen. Basically I think it was an HG with the 3HI loader and someone found some OC-4 sheet metal and did some building.

ObsoElitist · January 16, 2015, 04:05:35 AM

I agree that the sheet metal is only a facade, now i know what tractor to order manuals for. I intend to put it to work on my back property doing some light logging and making the sides less steep for safe access for my wheel loader, perhaps later I will trade for correct bodywork.I will dig in my boxes of carburetors tomorrow, i think i may have a suitable Schebler or Zenith in the updraft crate. I won't have time to fool with it though, we sell at the Turlock A's auto swap meet in a week. If you go we are in spaces HB 78-80 and I am Paul. We will have very little in the way of Ag stuff, some hayrake wheels and tin.

Robert Barbour · January 16, 2015, 05:29:29 AM

Note that the OC 3 or HG with the aux trans had a special clutch housing. That housing can be used with the early OC4 with the 4 cylinder engine. The later OC 4 or 46 used a different clutch housing that fits the 3 cylinder gas or diesel engine bell housings. This clutch housing will take the reverser or slow low aux trans, but will not fit the 4 cylinder bell housing.

Lowspeedlife · April 19, 2015, 05:20:44 PM

Quote from: John Schwiebert on January 16, 2015, 01:07:46 AM
The IXA was only used about 1 year (39 as was mentioned)

This may not be exactly correct, I have a IXA3 with a February 29, 1940 casting date, iron castings are usually "seasoned" for about a year before they are machined. That would mean my HG was manufactured early in 1941. As usual, the serial number plate is missing from this machine.

Lowspeedlife · April 19, 2015, 05:33:20 PM

Quote from: ObsoElitist on January 15, 2015, 09:58:46 PM
I still find nothing on the bell housing except a casting number #27469D. Does anyone have a photo of one from far enough back that i can see where the rivet holes should be?

If it's a 1939 the serial number plate would be located on the outside of the right frame rail, ahead of the foot rest. But mine has no holes there or on the flywheel housing???