MikeA

[Mike Anderson]

Hi folks,

I'm making great progress with the HG restoration, but have hit a minor snag.

The electrical and engine gauge systems on the HG and the two OC3s have been altered so much that I'm not sure what is original and what's not.   They're all different, too.  

I'm pretty sure the gauge mounting bracket I've got is good, but it only has space for two gauges, right now just oil pressure and amps.  What was done with the water temperature gauge or what was originally in the two holes?  Was there a "three holer" when the electical system was added for the ammeter?  Or was it mounted in a different bracket?

I've looked through the manuals with no success, so hope that someone can provide the correct information. Photos would, of course, be great!

Thanks for all the nice comments regarding the 2:1 reducer, too!

Mike

The photo below shows the current setup:

[thecatskinner]

Mike, there were only two gages as standard; oil pressure and amp meter.

The only ones that had a water temperature gauge were ones set-up for gas/kerosene and the the gauge was mounted on it's own bracket.

I suspect the thinking was that when they get hot you see the steam coming out--what more do you need:o;)

If nobody else jumps in here I will look in the book tonight and let you know which one goes were, I,m just not sure from memory.

The correct gages also had "Cletrac" on the face.  If you need a source let me know.

Also, based on the pictures you are doing a first class job.  If you need sources for the correct wiring, as well as what it was I can give you that as well.  Landis has the plug wiring but not the chassis wiring.

Some of the gauge panels had a small hole, you may or may not have that.  If you have it that was for a fuse holder.

[Mike Anderson]

Thanks for the info......unless I hear otherwise, I'll probably make a "tasteful" individual mount for the temp gauge.  Which gauge goes where would be good information, too.

Wiring info would be helpful, too.  The switch I have is probably not the right one.  Was there a magneto grounding switch or was it part of the key circuit?  The books I have don't actually show many of the optional equipment parts, like starter, even though there is a wiring diagram.

I made the mistake of putting an on/off switch on the OC3 and found it would drain the battery.  I ended up with a momentary off switch to kill the engine.

Thanks again, Mike

[thecatskinner]

Mike, I will give you as much as I have, but keep in mind these things changed---I'm sure you have found that out already.
The older HGs didn't even have a gage "panel".  The one we had when I was a kid only had an oil pressure gage as I recall.

Anyway, the oil press Gage goes to the left.
I have a picture of a panel, which is the same as mine and that does not have the fuse holder in it.  Rather it has two middle holes, the upper for the light switch and the lower for the ignition.  They are just small metal pull switches without knobs.

Somewhere I have a picture of the temp gage mounting and it was just a piece of break (90 deg) metal and I think connected at the gas tank support.

The wiring that I have in my book is as follows:
Head lights: brown
Start Sw to Amp meter: red
Voltage reg to amp meter: brown

The cotton braided wire, the correct terminals and the battery cable with cotton cover, and the metal shield
are available from:



Not on this computer---I'll have to get that for you Monday!

[Eric Severance]

I agree with the Catskinner. The temperature gauge came with the kero burners, but it was also available as an option on the gas burners. The break metal bracket for it was mounted to the gas tank support on the early models, and to the top of the gauge mounting bracket over the left gauge on the later ones.

[erik]

I have an OC3 with dual fuel and three gauges with one mounted on top of the gaugepanel . I can attache a photo in the end of the week.
Erik:)

[thecatskinner]

Mike, I looked at mine yesterday and didn't get much help on the wiring.  Some of mine appears to be original but is also 50 years old and I can't be sure what color it was.  Maybe when I get it off and cleaned up I will be able to tell better.

Here are sources for wiring and wiring accessories:

Chassis wiring: http://www.enginads.com/pedersen/index.html, http://www.magnetoparts.com/wire.htm , http://www.vapinc.com/brass/main.html Battery Terminal ends and hose clamps
Battery cable (cotton covered) http://www.riwire.com (this has it all, terminals, steel covered, ground etc., primary wiring.
Fuse holder for in the instrument panel. (see above)
Rear light: Oliver lights, gages and wiring: http://www.korvesoliver.com/

My gauge panel differs from what is in the book.
Left to right on the panel I have one 1/4" hole centered vertically and empty, then the oil pressure gage then the headlight (top) and ignition switches then the amp gauge and on the right a blank chrome filler plug in another hole.  I'm not sure what that was for--it is about the size of a cigarette lighter, but I can't imagine that was the purpose(?)
On top of the panel I have additional 1/4" holes drilled.  My choke cable is connected to a bracket there as well, but I'm not sure that is correct.
It does not appear that I had a fuse holder mounted in the panel.

Just a word on the wiring since I'm not sure your intent with the restoration.  I am a tad anal about this since I also have antique cars, including a 1922 Packard which I show.  I have to tell you that the AACA judges are ANAL!  
The wrong color on one wire will cost points.
While I intend to be as accurate as I can when I do restore mine (I'm too busy using it now )I am going to be more relaxed than I am with the cars.

[Mike Anderson]

My intent is to use the machine when finished, so I'm not really looking at making it totally original.  

My plan is to keep is as close as possible, though, unless it hinders operation or is too expensive to make sense on a working machine.  I do plan on putting a starter solenoid on it, as an example.  

The 1" hole on my "instrument panel" did have a keyed switch in it.  None of my machines has  what I would believe to be an original on/off or starter switch.  

I was at a tractor show this weekend and took some photos of a tractor that appeared to be low hours.  I'll attach that, and maybe someone can comment on how original the setup might be......hard to find this stuff out!

Thanks for your help, Mike

[Mike Anderson]

Here's a rear view showing the starter switch.

[thecatskinner]

Mike, great picture and I hope that as we go along here we can get more pictures like that up--but I don't think that it is correct.
I have to preface this by saying that things were much "more free" in the tractor building business than they were in the auto business.

My starter switch location is not original but what I think I remember as a kid was that the starter switch was mounted right in the middle between the steering handles.  I know Landis has a reproduction mounting box for it.  
My switch got moved to put the mounting bracket for an umbrella there.
I cannot remember ever seeing a ground switch mounted with the starter.

[Eric Severance]

I say most of the gauge-starter switch configuration in the photos are near original looking. The wiring itself has been changed, and was not made to look original. The switch up on the gas tank support looks like it has been added for some reason. There was a ground switch on the starter switch so that the tractor could be shut off without dismounting the tractor. You will want that. The key switch that you see on the gauge panel (on some tractors) operates the lights only. The fuse block that you mention is also incorporated in the light circuit. That may explain why you are not seeing these on all tractors, as some were not originally equipped with lights. I will try to get pictures up of some of my stuff if it will help. Headed out the door with the digital now !

[Eric Severance]

Here is some pictures of my 41 GG. As Catskinner says, they will be worth their most if they are as original as possible. I know we did not get it perfect, but we tried to get it as close to original as we knew how at the time.

[Eric Severance]

Here is a picture of our 54 OC-3. This represents the later version of the starter button, and gauges. Do you know what year your HG is Mike ? This one has the temperature gauge also.

[thecatskinner]

Eric, your General looks wonderful--do you drive that with socks only;)

The panel on your OC is the exact same thing as I have on my 51 HG except for the temperature gage which I don't have.

You have the same starter switch enclosure that Mike has--I don't remember our HG having the the ground switch on it---but that was 50 years ago:o:o

[Mike Anderson]

Dang, Erik, that is one fine looking GG!

I like the mounting for the temp gauge on your other machine.  Are you going to make it look like the GG?  Shouldn't take too long  ( I got a D when I clicked on a smiley...wonder what will happen).

I'll post some more pictures as I go along.  Sadly, the IXK engine on mine was in such bad shape that it wasn't looking practical for a worker, so I picked up a rebuilt IXB-3 with water pump, etc.  It, of course, won't be as original, but it should work nicely.  I just liked to use the machine so much that I wanted to be able to use it.  Hard choices, and it's going to be painful the first time I put the blade in the dirt and start scratching it up!

I live on 10 acres of hilly land, and have lots of dirt moving projects.  The Cat RD4 wide gauge moves a lot more dirt but with terraces and trees, the HG will actually be much more usable.  

Thanks for all the help from everyone, I'm sure I'll have more questions.  Keep those photos coming!

Mike